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BMW is a particularly heavy sedan. The Honda Civic is 2877 to 3126. Even the Golf R which has a rear diff, DCT, and a 2.0 turbo is only 3100 pounds.

ggreer 5y ago
I picked a gas car of comparable size. The Civic and Golf are much smaller than the Model 3.
- kube-system 5y ago
  The Civic is 2 inches shorter and 2 inches narrower than the Model 3, but it actually has a larger interior volume by one cubic foot. Size up to the Accord which is 8 inches longer and a half inch wider than a Model 3 (and 9ft^3 more interior space), and it still only weighs 3131-3362 lbs.
  - _ea1k 5y ago
    The 3 has at least 5 cubic feet more in cargo space than the Civic. In practice there is a pretty big difference between those two cars.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      The Civic and 3 both have 15 ft^3 of cargo space according to the EPA. Regardless, the Accord dwarfs it and supports the above point that the Model 3 is a heavy car, and the BMW 3 series is heavy because it was built to have a premium feel as a design priority, not because it is ICE.
      - _ea1k 5y ago
        That's odd, I had no idea the EPA even presented a spec like that. It must be a difference in how they estimate it. The BMW comparison is interesting as the performance numbers are similar. The 3 series heft vs a civic is largely due to the engine and drivetrain choices. Its much easier to optimize weight on a low powered FWD car.
  - ggreer 5y ago
    Where are you getting those figures? When I look up the stats for the 2021 Accord I see weights ranging from 3,150-3,446lbs.[1] Really though, the Civic and Accord aren't competing with the Model 3. They're front wheel drive. They have less power and torque. They use struts for the front suspension. All of these measures save significant weight (and cost). That's why I picked the BMW 3 series. It's similar size, performance, and cost. If we look at other competitors to the Model 3 we get similar weights: - Volvo S60: 3,724-4,468lbs. (The low number is front wheel drive. The high number is a plug-in hybrid.) - Audi A4: 3,682-3,726lbs. - Mercedes C-Class: 3,472-3,605lbs. - Cadillac CT4: 3,422-3,616lbs. - Volkswagen Passat: 3,014–3,794lbs. (The lighter versions are front wheel drive only. The heavier versions are hybrids.) In general, fancier cars are heavier. Also safer cars tend to be heavier. Yes batteries are heavy, but so are engines, drivetrains, starter motors, turbochargers, exhaust systems, fuel tanks, and so on. Early electric cars were significantly heavier because they were based on combustion platforms. When EVs are designed from the ground up, the weight penalty is less than 10%. Vehicle models in the same market segment vary more than that, and some combustion vehicles are already heavier than their electric competitors. This will likely get better with time as battery technology improves. The statement "EVs are heavier" is approximately as true as "AWD vehicles are heavier". All else equal it's more likely than not, but the difference is rarely enough to matter for any practical purpose. 1. https://www.caranddriver.com/honda/accord/specs/2021/honda_accord_honda-accord_2021/418415 https://www.caranddriver.com/honda/accord/specs/2021/honda_a...
    - mcguire 5y ago
      And the GMC Yukon is 5500-5800 lbs, which is what I expect the original comment to be making a comparison with.
      - kube-system 5y ago
        GMC Sierra, maybe, but as far as SUVs go, the Yukon/Escalade/Suburban/Tahoe are not a very popular size of SUV in the US. They're too dang expensive for most people. The RAV4, CR-V, and Rogue are the top 3 best selling SUVs in the US so far this year. They're about half the price of a Yukon. The rest of the top 25 are almost all sedans, similarly sized midsize SUVs and pickups.
jameshart 5y ago
And an e-Golf weighs 3455lbs. Which - sure, is 10% heavier than a Golf R. But then so, apparently, is a heavy Civic compared to a light one.

ggreer 5y ago

I picked a gas car of comparable size. The Civic and Golf are much smaller than the Model 3.

kube-system 5y ago
The Civic is 2 inches shorter and 2 inches narrower than the Model 3, but it actually has a larger interior volume by one cubic foot. Size up to the Accord which is 8 inches longer and a half inch wider than a Model 3 (and 9ft^3 more interior space), and it still only weighs 3131-3362 lbs.
- _ea1k 5y ago
  The 3 has at least 5 cubic feet more in cargo space than the Civic. In practice there is a pretty big difference between those two cars.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    The Civic and 3 both have 15 ft^3 of cargo space according to the EPA. Regardless, the Accord dwarfs it and supports the above point that the Model 3 is a heavy car, and the BMW 3 series is heavy because it was built to have a premium feel as a design priority, not because it is ICE.
    - _ea1k 5y ago
      That's odd, I had no idea the EPA even presented a spec like that. It must be a difference in how they estimate it. The BMW comparison is interesting as the performance numbers are similar. The 3 series heft vs a civic is largely due to the engine and drivetrain choices. Its much easier to optimize weight on a low powered FWD car.
- ggreer 5y ago
  Where are you getting those figures? When I look up the stats for the 2021 Accord I see weights ranging from 3,150-3,446lbs.[1] Really though, the Civic and Accord aren't competing with the Model 3. They're front wheel drive. They have less power and torque. They use struts for the front suspension. All of these measures save significant weight (and cost). That's why I picked the BMW 3 series. It's similar size, performance, and cost. If we look at other competitors to the Model 3 we get similar weights: - Volvo S60: 3,724-4,468lbs. (The low number is front wheel drive. The high number is a plug-in hybrid.) - Audi A4: 3,682-3,726lbs. - Mercedes C-Class: 3,472-3,605lbs. - Cadillac CT4: 3,422-3,616lbs. - Volkswagen Passat: 3,014–3,794lbs. (The lighter versions are front wheel drive only. The heavier versions are hybrids.) In general, fancier cars are heavier. Also safer cars tend to be heavier. Yes batteries are heavy, but so are engines, drivetrains, starter motors, turbochargers, exhaust systems, fuel tanks, and so on. Early electric cars were significantly heavier because they were based on combustion platforms. When EVs are designed from the ground up, the weight penalty is less than 10%. Vehicle models in the same market segment vary more than that, and some combustion vehicles are already heavier than their electric competitors. This will likely get better with time as battery technology improves. The statement "EVs are heavier" is approximately as true as "AWD vehicles are heavier". All else equal it's more likely than not, but the difference is rarely enough to matter for any practical purpose. 1. https://www.caranddriver.com/honda/accord/specs/2021/honda_accord_honda-accord_2021/418415 https://www.caranddriver.com/honda/accord/specs/2021/honda_a...
  - mcguire 5y ago
    And the GMC Yukon is 5500-5800 lbs, which is what I expect the original comment to be making a comparison with.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      GMC Sierra, maybe, but as far as SUVs go, the Yukon/Escalade/Suburban/Tahoe are not a very popular size of SUV in the US. They're too dang expensive for most people. The RAV4, CR-V, and Rogue are the top 3 best selling SUVs in the US so far this year. They're about half the price of a Yukon. The rest of the top 25 are almost all sedans, similarly sized midsize SUVs and pickups.

jameshart 5y ago

And an e-Golf weighs 3455lbs. Which - sure, is 10% heavier than a Golf R. But then so, apparently, is a heavy Civic compared to a light one.