7 ms·

Access to firearms has certainly been shown to affect suicide rates, especially among men, given how surprisingly impulsive suicides are. But it's not sufficien

Access to firearms has certainly been shown to affect suicide rates, especially among men, given how surprisingly impulsive suicides are. But it's not sufficient, given that there are other countries with higher suicide rates and fewer firearms. Also, while America has a lot of guns, there's also a lot of variance. The stats are a bit hard to compute, but there appear to be some states in the US that have fewer firearms per capita than some other countries, notably Switzerland, Canada, and Finland. It's also worth pointing out that suicide by firearm is largely a male thing. In the United States women attempt suicide at 3x the rate that men do, but they tend to die because of that at a much lower rate (22.4 for men, 6.8 for women). The rate of completed female suicides is currently rising faster for women than men, worryingly. It's complicated, basically. And as always discussing suicide creates a contagion risk. If you're experiencing suicidal thoughts, please know that help is available at the national suicide prevention hotline, 800-273-8255.

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
> Access to firearms has certainly been shown to affect suicide rates, especially among men, given how surprisingly impulsive suicides are. But it's not sufficient, given that there are other countries with higher suicide rates and fewer firearms. For reference, nine of the top ten nations for suicide of banned civilian gun ownership. All of the top 40 nations make it difficult. USA is usually around #50 or so. It is complicated, and even statements like ”access to firearms has been shown to affect suicide rates” are could be misleading because you could be putting the cart before the horse, if someone has chosen to kill themselves, it reasons they will chose a fast/painless, and effective tool.
- LinuxBender 5y ago
  Less painful in my opinion would be a helium tank from a childrens party store and a gas mask from a hardware store. Syncope -> Mortality. Probably closer to Kevorkian's assisted method but more involved.
  - WalterSear 5y ago
    They no longer put pure helium in those tanks for this reason.
    - LinuxBender 5y ago
      Ah yes, it appears that has fallen in favor of nitrogen. [1] I never would have imagined nitrogen would do the same thing. Apparently there are a variety of inert gasses that have the same effect. [2] [1] - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29684846/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29684846/ [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation#Suicide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation#Suicide
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - wahern 5y ago
        The autonomic system responds not to lack of oxygen, but to a rise in carbon dioxide levels. (More specifically I think it has something to do with pH, which decreases as carbon dioxide increases.) So as long as you can expire carbon dioxide, you'll pass out without any sensation of asphyxiation or struggle. You still need to inhale to exhale, though, and the inhaled air needs to have a sufficiently low partial pressure of carbon dioxide.
  - officeplant 5y ago
    One of my friends borrowed nitrogen and a mask from work to pull it off. It's the most ideal way to go out from what I understand. On the shittiest days I see the lines of nitrogen tanks we use at work for Gas Detector calibration and remember my old buddy.
- DanBC 5y ago
  > It is complicated, and even statements like ”access to firearms has been shown to affect suicide rates” are could be misleading because you could be putting the cart before the horse, if someone has chosen to kill themselves, it reasons they will chose a fast/painless, and effective tool. But choice of method does affect rate of death, so it's correct to say that increased access to any method that's commonly used affects the rate of death. Decreasing access to that method is valid if its one of the measures taken to reduce suicide rates.
- NineStarPoint 5y ago
  The unique thing about guns is that they're generally more effective at suicide than the other chosen methods. It's less about the speed of access people are mentioning, but more that when someone uses a gun to commit suicide it's more likely to work than other methods. So it's less that guns increase the rate of suicide, and more that they increase the suicide rate to suicide attempt ratio due to their efficacy. Which, similar to the point you're making, means America probably has less suicide attempts to begin with than its suicide rate would indicate relative to other countries.
robocat 5y ago
> given how surprisingly impulsive suicides are Do you have a reason to imply most suicides are impulsive? I don’t think the media implies that (and my experience in New Zealand is they are not impulsive - usually following a long period of depression and maybe stated intent or attempts).
- lazyasciiart 5y ago
  A long history of depression and some level of intent doesn't mean an attempt wasn't impulsive. That's why the question of whether someone has a specific plan is used to assess risk: there's a huge difference between passive suicidal thoughts and active suicide plans. This page contains a few studies on how long people think about it before making an attempt - https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/duration/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/durat...
  - robocat 5y ago
    OK, I did a quick Google (uggh, I wonder what adverts I will targeted by now!) There is scientific disagreement over impulsivity, and the distinction between impulsive and planning is so blurry as to be not that useful to a non-specialist. Also my quick skim of the topic was somewhat confusing because there is a different topic about whether impulsive personalities are more likely to suicide (probably not). And my case personally I am middle aged, and my peer group appears more likely to plan, which affects my anecdotal experience. I think my problem is that the word “impulsive” is odd. Someone who has been thinking of committing suicide for months, and then one day “suddenly” decides to go through with it, seems to be considered by the literature to have made an impulsive decision. That definition doesn’t fit my usual meaning of the word impulsive (e.g. I don’t think it makes sense to say: I have been looking at cars to buy for two months and then I impulsively bought one).
    - lazyasciiart 5y ago
      It might make more sense to you to compare it to midlife crisis actions? E.g that guy has been looking at that car for years and today he impulsively bought it.

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago

> Access to firearms has certainly been shown to affect suicide rates, especially among men, given how surprisingly impulsive suicides are. But it's not sufficient, given that there are other countries with higher suicide rates and fewer firearms. For reference, nine of the top ten nations for suicide of banned civilian gun ownership. All of the top 40 nations make it difficult. USA is usually around #50 or so. It is complicated, and even statements like ”access to firearms has been shown to affect suicide rates” are could be misleading because you could be putting the cart before the horse, if someone has chosen to kill themselves, it reasons they will chose a fast/painless, and effective tool.

LinuxBender 5y ago
Less painful in my opinion would be a helium tank from a childrens party store and a gas mask from a hardware store. Syncope -> Mortality. Probably closer to Kevorkian's assisted method but more involved.
- WalterSear 5y ago
  They no longer put pure helium in those tanks for this reason.
  - LinuxBender 5y ago
    Ah yes, it appears that has fallen in favor of nitrogen. [1] I never would have imagined nitrogen would do the same thing. Apparently there are a variety of inert gasses that have the same effect. [2] [1] - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29684846/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29684846/ [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation#Suicide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation#Suicide
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - wahern 5y ago
      The autonomic system responds not to lack of oxygen, but to a rise in carbon dioxide levels. (More specifically I think it has something to do with pH, which decreases as carbon dioxide increases.) So as long as you can expire carbon dioxide, you'll pass out without any sensation of asphyxiation or struggle. You still need to inhale to exhale, though, and the inhaled air needs to have a sufficiently low partial pressure of carbon dioxide.
- officeplant 5y ago
  One of my friends borrowed nitrogen and a mask from work to pull it off. It's the most ideal way to go out from what I understand. On the shittiest days I see the lines of nitrogen tanks we use at work for Gas Detector calibration and remember my old buddy.
DanBC 5y ago
> It is complicated, and even statements like ”access to firearms has been shown to affect suicide rates” are could be misleading because you could be putting the cart before the horse, if someone has chosen to kill themselves, it reasons they will chose a fast/painless, and effective tool. But choice of method does affect rate of death, so it's correct to say that increased access to any method that's commonly used affects the rate of death. Decreasing access to that method is valid if its one of the measures taken to reduce suicide rates.
NineStarPoint 5y ago
The unique thing about guns is that they're generally more effective at suicide than the other chosen methods. It's less about the speed of access people are mentioning, but more that when someone uses a gun to commit suicide it's more likely to work than other methods. So it's less that guns increase the rate of suicide, and more that they increase the suicide rate to suicide attempt ratio due to their efficacy. Which, similar to the point you're making, means America probably has less suicide attempts to begin with than its suicide rate would indicate relative to other countries.

robocat 5y ago

> given how surprisingly impulsive suicides are Do you have a reason to imply most suicides are impulsive? I don’t think the media implies that (and my experience in New Zealand is they are not impulsive - usually following a long period of depression and maybe stated intent or attempts).

lazyasciiart 5y ago
A long history of depression and some level of intent doesn't mean an attempt wasn't impulsive. That's why the question of whether someone has a specific plan is used to assess risk: there's a huge difference between passive suicidal thoughts and active suicide plans. This page contains a few studies on how long people think about it before making an attempt - https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/duration/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/durat...
- robocat 5y ago
  OK, I did a quick Google (uggh, I wonder what adverts I will targeted by now!) There is scientific disagreement over impulsivity, and the distinction between impulsive and planning is so blurry as to be not that useful to a non-specialist. Also my quick skim of the topic was somewhat confusing because there is a different topic about whether impulsive personalities are more likely to suicide (probably not). And my case personally I am middle aged, and my peer group appears more likely to plan, which affects my anecdotal experience. I think my problem is that the word “impulsive” is odd. Someone who has been thinking of committing suicide for months, and then one day “suddenly” decides to go through with it, seems to be considered by the literature to have made an impulsive decision. That definition doesn’t fit my usual meaning of the word impulsive (e.g. I don’t think it makes sense to say: I have been looking at cars to buy for two months and then I impulsively bought one).
  - lazyasciiart 5y ago
    It might make more sense to you to compare it to midlife crisis actions? E.g that guy has been looking at that car for years and today he impulsively bought it.