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1) Maxed-out battery (90-100WH) 2) Low-TDP modern CPU, ideally Ryzen 3) Bright, hi-res screen There is nothing on the market that offers this. M1 mac is the

1) Maxed-out battery (90-100WH) 2) Low-TDP modern CPU, ideally Ryzen 3) Bright, hi-res screen There is nothing on the market that offers this. M1 mac is the closest option, but Apple shouldn't be given money. I'm currently on a Thinkpad T480.

deepdmistry 5y ago
Why no money for apple ?
- michalf6 5y ago
  Anti-consumer behaviour. Multiple hardware design faults in macbooks. Actively working against repair, against software freedom, against the user (see recent CSAM fiasco). Non-removable storage. Preference of thin&light vs upgradeability/cooling. I wouldn't mind that as I'm not their customer, but all the crap they introduce gets mindlessly copied by all their competition.
  - michalf6 5y ago
    Adding to that, I'm afraid of the world moving away from the PC as a standard. Through a lucky set of circumstances, we were able to enjoy a relatively open and universal compatibility standard of computers for the last several decades. I'm afraid of the computing world fragmenting again into several walled gardens in the likes of Amiga/Atari of old, nothing being compatible with each other, unable to run code not signed by the manufacturer. The danger should IMO be obvious, but I watch in terror as my friends happily buy into the M1.
    - sircastor 5y ago
      Seeing that, it seems like this is likely cyclical. We’ll have 20 years of siloed hardware, and then some competitors figure out a way to get a foot in the door, or signed-only systems will become distasteful to consumers and Companies will revert, interoperability will become the norm again. There are always barriers in computing and society will respond to it.
      - wheybags 5y ago
        You dismiss 20 years of darkness like it's nothing...
        emteycz 5y ago
        PC-compatible hardware and software is not going anywhere...
        5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
        Until everyone stops buying it and it becomes a premium thing which the little man like myself simply cannot afford.
        katbyte 5y ago
        PC like desktops are in _no_ danger of going anywhere. There will always been a huge gamer and hobbies market for them. Laptops maybe, but the framework laptop is exactly what you want, seems pretty decent, and has a decent chance of taking off.
    - katbyte 5y ago
      PC like desktops are in no danger of going anywhere, there will always be a huge gamer and hobbyist market for them.
    - can16358p 5y ago
      The real problem is that there is no competition. Not a fan of Apple here but I use (and admittedly like) their products: I develop apps and iOS is solid on the app landscape, currently we don't even care about Android versions of our apps in almost any project that we use because most people who are "serious" about their apps are on iPhones and iPads. In addition, even though I have the hacker mindset of many out here, at the end of the day I need something reliable and good-looking, and well supported, which Apple has and others don't. I don't like Apple's user-hostile behavior and would happily love to see some competition. For me: Apple is bad, Microsoft/Google is worse. So Apple is relatively good.
  - randomopining 5y ago
    That's the premium you pay for the best.
    - michalf6 5y ago
      I have a different definition of "best".
    - gremIin 5y ago
      What is with this knee-jerk defense of Apple every time someone suggests holding them to a higher consumer standard? You can sell good products while still embracing open technologies.
      - randomopining 5y ago
        You pay $800 and you get your value. The market obviously decided that the value provided is good enough, since their sales are good. Just because you value certain things doesn't mean the collective does.
        godDLL 5y ago
        Just because some sliver (OK, large sliver) of their consumer base is satisfied with this shit doesn't mean that they didn't live a sizeable amount of people stranded for both hardware and software options. Because they did. I used to be able to slam an MBP down on the woodworking table, open it up and start typing. Now there is no slamming, because they flimsy. No typing near dust, because they get stuck in the keyboard. Every app is a single window, so you can't chat with two people at once. Everything is in the cloud, so you wait on your very fast computer to do networking all the f.in time (even opening Finder). The UI has lost so much of it's legibility that I don't know what I'm looking at half the time anymore. Active window? Maybe not? What does that label say? Why is this a modal? Where is the "don't ask again items" preference pane? We have parted ways, I think. I'm not riding with them anymore.
        mwint 5y ago
  - tentacleuno 5y ago
    > Preference of thin&light vs upgradeability/cooling. I recently watched something[0] about the Macbook cooling (Intel, at least) and you seem to be right. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlOPPuNv4Ec&t=0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlOPPuNv4Ec&t=0
mstaoru 5y ago
Asus Vivobook 16X OLED? 1) 94 Wh battery 2) R7 5800h / R9 5800hx 3) 4K OLED screen that goes to 550
- GordonS 5y ago
  I hadn't come across this laptop before - looks pretty good! Do you own one? Keen to know what real world battery life is like, and if there are any tradeoffs/annoyances?
- reacharavindh 5y ago
  I think this is going to be my next work laptop. I have been eyeing the new M1X mac, but the attraction of Linux is too high on me. I will decide after Apple releases their better M1…
- pca006132 5y ago
  Just wondering, can we really feel the difference between 2k and 4k on a small screen?
  - xattt 5y ago
    Yes, other screens are ruined for you.
    - mnw21cam 5y ago
      I'm currently dreading the time when I stop working from home and go back into the office, because at home I have a nice 4k monitor and a 3200x1800 laptop screen, whereas at work it's 1920x1080 or less - and that was fairly recently bought too.
    - GordonS 5y ago
      My main monitor is a wonderful 27" Dell Ultrasharp 3K, and for my secondary monitor (which I keep in portrait orientation) I have a 24" Dell Ultrasharp FHD 16:10. After seeing how crisp and clear the text is on my main screen, I was really annoyed with myself for not getting a 3K screen for my secondary monitor too :(
mrweasel 5y ago
You’re on a ThinkPad, I’d rather not give Lenovo any money until they sort out the slave labour problems.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  ...which is so obviously not a problem Apple faces? https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/10/22428899/apple-suppliers-china-uyghur-forced-labor-report https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/10/22428899/apple-suppliers-... https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/20/apple-uighur/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/20/apple-u... https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/29/lens-technology-apple-uighur/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/29/lens-te...
chx 5y ago
Ryzen still doesn't have Thunderbolt. For some -- like me -- this still excludes Ryzen. And you are right that Intel U chips are rarely are shipping with 90Wh+ . But https://www.asus.com/Laptops/For-Home/Zenbook/Zenbook-Flip-15-UX564/techspec/ https://www.asus.com/Laptops/For-Home/Zenbook/Zenbook-Flip-1... does. The Lenovo Yoga 7i 14 (Yoga Slim 7) has a 71 Wh, the Schenker Via 14 has a 73 Wh, the HP Spectre x360 15 72.9 Wh, the MSI Summit E15 has a 82 Wh.
- distances 5y ago
  Thunderbolt is Intel's proprietary technology, I don't think AMD will ever have that. I think you'll have to wait for USB-4 if the current speeds really aren't enough.
  - chx 5y ago
    Oh of course, I didn't want to go into that detail but trust me I know all that, TB3 got donated to USB IF, it became USB 4 with a few extras (most importantly the USB packets on the bus). And then Intel took USB 4 and put a marketing name on "USB 4 with every optional feature on" and called it Thunderbolt 4. And yes, likely next year, AMD will have USB 4 but -- not right now. And the problem is not exactly the bus speed -- although 10Gpbs is not that much -- but the lack of external PCI Express (or any other DMA capable protocol but the last non-PCIe tech doing that was Firewire and that's gone).
  - Tsiklon 5y ago
    Not necessarily so, ASUS as an example has released an AMD board equipped with thunderbolt 4 in the form of the B550 ProArt. In a laptop it’s perhaps a bit more problematic until USB-4 comes along in greater volumes, but by then Thunderbolt and USB-4 will be the same thing
    - chx 5y ago
      > but by then Thunderbolt and USB-4 will be the same thing see my reply below -- it already is. sorta.
  - 5y ago
kuschku 5y ago
Well, there is an option. 1. Get a T480 with the i7-8650 2. Get the 95Wh battery option (24Wh internal + 72Wh external) 3. Upgrade RAM to 32GB DDR4-2400 4. Upgrade SSD to 2TB NVMe 5. Upgrade display to the T14 Gen2’s 1080p 100% sRGB 400nits display (available with custom brackets for T470/T480 e.g. here: https://www.xelent-store.de/Innolux-N140HCG-GQ2-400cd-Low-Power-Display-72-NTSC-inkl-4-brackets https://www.xelent-store.de/Innolux-N140HCG-GQ2-400cd-Low-Po...) Result: A laptop with awesome specs in all regards except CPU, and even the CPU is still respectable, replaceable everything, and a great display. For overall somewhere around 500-700€. There’s nothing better on the market right now, especially as this gives you powerbridge, so you can keep two external batteries and just replace them when they drop to 0% instead of having to wait for it to charge. And as the T470/T480 is easy to open up, you just need a small iFixit kit and 30 minutes to do all these replacements.

deepdmistry 5y ago

Why no money for apple ?

michalf6 5y ago
Anti-consumer behaviour. Multiple hardware design faults in macbooks. Actively working against repair, against software freedom, against the user (see recent CSAM fiasco). Non-removable storage. Preference of thin&light vs upgradeability/cooling. I wouldn't mind that as I'm not their customer, but all the crap they introduce gets mindlessly copied by all their competition.
- michalf6 5y ago
  Adding to that, I'm afraid of the world moving away from the PC as a standard. Through a lucky set of circumstances, we were able to enjoy a relatively open and universal compatibility standard of computers for the last several decades. I'm afraid of the computing world fragmenting again into several walled gardens in the likes of Amiga/Atari of old, nothing being compatible with each other, unable to run code not signed by the manufacturer. The danger should IMO be obvious, but I watch in terror as my friends happily buy into the M1.
  - sircastor 5y ago
    Seeing that, it seems like this is likely cyclical. We’ll have 20 years of siloed hardware, and then some competitors figure out a way to get a foot in the door, or signed-only systems will become distasteful to consumers and Companies will revert, interoperability will become the norm again. There are always barriers in computing and society will respond to it.
    - wheybags 5y ago
      You dismiss 20 years of darkness like it's nothing...
      - emteycz 5y ago
        PC-compatible hardware and software is not going anywhere...
        5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
        Until everyone stops buying it and it becomes a premium thing which the little man like myself simply cannot afford.
        katbyte 5y ago
        PC like desktops are in _no_ danger of going anywhere. There will always been a huge gamer and hobbies market for them. Laptops maybe, but the framework laptop is exactly what you want, seems pretty decent, and has a decent chance of taking off.
  - katbyte 5y ago
    PC like desktops are in no danger of going anywhere, there will always be a huge gamer and hobbyist market for them.
  - can16358p 5y ago
    The real problem is that there is no competition. Not a fan of Apple here but I use (and admittedly like) their products: I develop apps and iOS is solid on the app landscape, currently we don't even care about Android versions of our apps in almost any project that we use because most people who are "serious" about their apps are on iPhones and iPads. In addition, even though I have the hacker mindset of many out here, at the end of the day I need something reliable and good-looking, and well supported, which Apple has and others don't. I don't like Apple's user-hostile behavior and would happily love to see some competition. For me: Apple is bad, Microsoft/Google is worse. So Apple is relatively good.
- randomopining 5y ago
  That's the premium you pay for the best.
  - michalf6 5y ago
    I have a different definition of "best".
  - gremIin 5y ago
    What is with this knee-jerk defense of Apple every time someone suggests holding them to a higher consumer standard? You can sell good products while still embracing open technologies.
    - randomopining 5y ago
      You pay $800 and you get your value. The market obviously decided that the value provided is good enough, since their sales are good. Just because you value certain things doesn't mean the collective does.
      - godDLL 5y ago
        Just because some sliver (OK, large sliver) of their consumer base is satisfied with this shit doesn't mean that they didn't live a sizeable amount of people stranded for both hardware and software options. Because they did. I used to be able to slam an MBP down on the woodworking table, open it up and start typing. Now there is no slamming, because they flimsy. No typing near dust, because they get stuck in the keyboard. Every app is a single window, so you can't chat with two people at once. Everything is in the cloud, so you wait on your very fast computer to do networking all the f.in time (even opening Finder). The UI has lost so much of it's legibility that I don't know what I'm looking at half the time anymore. Active window? Maybe not? What does that label say? Why is this a modal? Where is the "don't ask again items" preference pane? We have parted ways, I think. I'm not riding with them anymore.
        mwint 5y ago
- tentacleuno 5y ago
  > Preference of thin&light vs upgradeability/cooling. I recently watched something[0] about the Macbook cooling (Intel, at least) and you seem to be right. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlOPPuNv4Ec&t=0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlOPPuNv4Ec&t=0

mstaoru 5y ago

Asus Vivobook 16X OLED? 1) 94 Wh battery 2) R7 5800h / R9 5800hx 3) 4K OLED screen that goes to 550

GordonS 5y ago
I hadn't come across this laptop before - looks pretty good! Do you own one? Keen to know what real world battery life is like, and if there are any tradeoffs/annoyances?
reacharavindh 5y ago
I think this is going to be my next work laptop. I have been eyeing the new M1X mac, but the attraction of Linux is too high on me. I will decide after Apple releases their better M1…
pca006132 5y ago
Just wondering, can we really feel the difference between 2k and 4k on a small screen?
- xattt 5y ago
  Yes, other screens are ruined for you.
  - mnw21cam 5y ago
    I'm currently dreading the time when I stop working from home and go back into the office, because at home I have a nice 4k monitor and a 3200x1800 laptop screen, whereas at work it's 1920x1080 or less - and that was fairly recently bought too.
  - GordonS 5y ago
    My main monitor is a wonderful 27" Dell Ultrasharp 3K, and for my secondary monitor (which I keep in portrait orientation) I have a 24" Dell Ultrasharp FHD 16:10. After seeing how crisp and clear the text is on my main screen, I was really annoyed with myself for not getting a 3K screen for my secondary monitor too :(

mrweasel 5y ago

You’re on a ThinkPad, I’d rather not give Lenovo any money until they sort out the slave labour problems.

smoldesu 5y ago
...which is so obviously not a problem Apple faces? https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/10/22428899/apple-suppliers-china-uyghur-forced-labor-report https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/10/22428899/apple-suppliers-... https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/20/apple-uighur/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/20/apple-u... https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/29/lens-technology-apple-uighur/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/29/lens-te...

chx 5y ago

Ryzen still doesn't have Thunderbolt. For some -- like me -- this still excludes Ryzen. And you are right that Intel U chips are rarely are shipping with 90Wh+ . But https://www.asus.com/Laptops/For-Home/Zenbook/Zenbook-Flip-15-UX564/techspec/ https://www.asus.com/Laptops/For-Home/Zenbook/Zenbook-Flip-1... does. The Lenovo Yoga 7i 14 (Yoga Slim 7) has a 71 Wh, the Schenker Via 14 has a 73 Wh, the HP Spectre x360 15 72.9 Wh, the MSI Summit E15 has a 82 Wh.

distances 5y ago
Thunderbolt is Intel's proprietary technology, I don't think AMD will ever have that. I think you'll have to wait for USB-4 if the current speeds really aren't enough.
- chx 5y ago
  Oh of course, I didn't want to go into that detail but trust me I know all that, TB3 got donated to USB IF, it became USB 4 with a few extras (most importantly the USB packets on the bus). And then Intel took USB 4 and put a marketing name on "USB 4 with every optional feature on" and called it Thunderbolt 4. And yes, likely next year, AMD will have USB 4 but -- not right now. And the problem is not exactly the bus speed -- although 10Gpbs is not that much -- but the lack of external PCI Express (or any other DMA capable protocol but the last non-PCIe tech doing that was Firewire and that's gone).
- Tsiklon 5y ago
  Not necessarily so, ASUS as an example has released an AMD board equipped with thunderbolt 4 in the form of the B550 ProArt. In a laptop it’s perhaps a bit more problematic until USB-4 comes along in greater volumes, but by then Thunderbolt and USB-4 will be the same thing
  - chx 5y ago
    > but by then Thunderbolt and USB-4 will be the same thing see my reply below -- it already is. sorta.
- 5y ago

kuschku 5y ago

Well, there is an option. 1. Get a T480 with the i7-8650 2. Get the 95Wh battery option (24Wh internal + 72Wh external) 3. Upgrade RAM to 32GB DDR4-2400 4. Upgrade SSD to 2TB NVMe 5. Upgrade display to the T14 Gen2’s 1080p 100% sRGB 400nits display (available with custom brackets for T470/T480 e.g. here: https://www.xelent-store.de/Innolux-N140HCG-GQ2-400cd-Low-Power-Display-72-NTSC-inkl-4-brackets https://www.xelent-store.de/Innolux-N140HCG-GQ2-400cd-Low-Po...) Result: A laptop with awesome specs in all regards except CPU, and even the CPU is still respectable, replaceable everything, and a great display. For overall somewhere around 500-700€. There’s nothing better on the market right now, especially as this gives you powerbridge, so you can keep two external batteries and just replace them when they drop to 0% instead of having to wait for it to charge. And as the T470/T480 is easy to open up, you just need a small iFixit kit and 30 minutes to do all these replacements.