4 ms·

I think that politically correct ideas about one of those groups are both illogical and harmful to society. Some might find my views repugnant and wrongly desc

I think that politically correct ideas about one of those groups are both illogical and harmful to society. Some might find my views repugnant and wrongly describe them as "hate-filled". Does that mean I shouldn't be able to hold a job, or that to do so I should have to hide my opinions and express them only surreptitiously? If not, your argument against tenure doesn't hold. If so, I'd love to hear more about your reasoning.

ethbr0 5y ago
It's a fair point. One of the biggest pros in favor of unpopular freedom of speech is preventing revolution via the airing and discussion of suppressed views. In a college environment is probably the most socially safe (i.e. distinct from propagandizing) and productive (i.e. more likely to be intellectually examined) environments for them. So if they exist anywhere, and I subscribe to the idea that unpopular things need to be speakable somewhere, then college is a good place.
jbrwn 5y ago
> Does that mean I shouldn't be able to hold a job, or that to do so I should have to hide my opinions and express them only surreptitiously? You should, and are, free to express those opinions but bigotry is not a protected class. Your employer should be free to fire you if it doesn't like what you are saying. What value does tenure provide in this scenario? His blog is not related to CS or academia. He is doing harm to the reputation of the university and CS department.
- JasonFruit 5y ago
  I don't agree that he's "doing harm to the reputation of the university and CS department." I notice that it's especially with regard to universities that this argument arises. If he were working at Cost Cutters, or Copps Foods, or State Farm, no one would think that his employer was acting wrongly in employing him. There is nothing about a university that makes employing someone with his opinions do more reputational harm. On the contrary, a university has more reason to tolerate his divergent views, because it is directly concerned with intellectual freedom and free inquiry, which often leads people to investigate and even advocate for positions that are incorrect and even immoral (which, I agree, a cursory look at his website suggests his are). That's what tenure provides in this scenario: protection for intellectual freedom, even when free inquiry carries a professor into areas that are disapproved of in polite society.
  - jbrwn 5y ago
    > I don't agree that he's "doing harm to the reputation of the university and CS department." Well thats where we disagree i guess. When people google University of Montana computer science and see the dozens of articles that pop up about this guy they are not going to think oh yay this school is a champion of intellectual freedom. They are going to see a tenured professor propping up the worst of the worst CS stereotypes and software engineering bro culture.

ethbr0 5y ago

It's a fair point. One of the biggest pros in favor of unpopular freedom of speech is preventing revolution via the airing and discussion of suppressed views. In a college environment is probably the most socially safe (i.e. distinct from propagandizing) and productive (i.e. more likely to be intellectually examined) environments for them. So if they exist anywhere, and I subscribe to the idea that unpopular things need to be speakable somewhere, then college is a good place.

jbrwn 5y ago

> Does that mean I shouldn't be able to hold a job, or that to do so I should have to hide my opinions and express them only surreptitiously? You should, and are, free to express those opinions but bigotry is not a protected class. Your employer should be free to fire you if it doesn't like what you are saying. What value does tenure provide in this scenario? His blog is not related to CS or academia. He is doing harm to the reputation of the university and CS department.

JasonFruit 5y ago
I don't agree that he's "doing harm to the reputation of the university and CS department." I notice that it's especially with regard to universities that this argument arises. If he were working at Cost Cutters, or Copps Foods, or State Farm, no one would think that his employer was acting wrongly in employing him. There is nothing about a university that makes employing someone with his opinions do more reputational harm. On the contrary, a university has more reason to tolerate his divergent views, because it is directly concerned with intellectual freedom and free inquiry, which often leads people to investigate and even advocate for positions that are incorrect and even immoral (which, I agree, a cursory look at his website suggests his are). That's what tenure provides in this scenario: protection for intellectual freedom, even when free inquiry carries a professor into areas that are disapproved of in polite society.
- jbrwn 5y ago
  > I don't agree that he's "doing harm to the reputation of the university and CS department." Well thats where we disagree i guess. When people google University of Montana computer science and see the dozens of articles that pop up about this guy they are not going to think oh yay this school is a champion of intellectual freedom. They are going to see a tenured professor propping up the worst of the worst CS stereotypes and software engineering bro culture.