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There isn't. Only first time smartphone buyers have a choice.. you'll lose all your appstore purchases when you switch and having repurchase everything is going

There isn't. Only first time smartphone buyers have a choice.. you'll lose all your appstore purchases when you switch and having repurchase everything is going to dissuade anyone from switching. Even for the first time buyers, if all their friends are on iMessage, they practically have to buy an iPhone.

zepto 5y ago
How many App Store purchases matter? I’ve bought hundreds of apps over the years, but really don’t care about them. Nobody uses a lot of paid apps, and a lot of them have moved to subscriptions anyway.
thefounder 5y ago
Why would you need iMessages? I don't find it more useful than old school sms messaging. If you want secure messaging perhaps whatsup or signal are better options anyway.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  It's much, much faster than sms. Many of my friends refuse to get whatsapp let alone signal.
  - conductr 5y ago
    I to refuse to use other messaging apps but I find it hard to blame apple for creating a messaging app that people love/like enough to refuse using competing messaging apps. That's not lack of competition or lock in. That's just user preference, I prefer to keep it all in the same place. I don't need the extra feature of speed. Texting is async to me so speed it never noticeable. So I don't really care if you SMS me or iMessage me.
- acdha 5y ago
  It's more reliable and faster than SMS, removes the size limits, far more secure, and supports a lot of modern features (non-terrible media quality, received/read notifications, threading, app embeds, etc.) Signal tries to offer that but isn't as polished. The Facebook services like WhatsApp are good and cross-platform but that involves trusting Facebook heavily.
- mohanmcgeek 5y ago
  Network effect: Even if someone feels signal is better, they can't convince their whole group to start using signal. I don't use an iPhone. This is the reason I heard from iphone users.
  - conductr 5y ago
    iMessage and sms are the same app though, my android using friends can text me all the same
- windowsrookie 5y ago
  In the United States iMessage is almost the default messenger. I don't know anybody that uses WhatsApp, Telegram, or Signal. iMessage requires no extra setup its already there by default when you buy an iPhone. Asking somebody non-techy to switch messaging apps just isn't going to happen. With iMessage you can send high resolution photos and videos, which may seem like not a big deal. But it is. Sending a message between Android and iOS uses mms and the photo/video is compressed to an unusable state. I can airdrop a 1GB+ file instantly to any Apple device. How do I transfer a 1GB file to somebody on Android or on a PC? Upload to google drive? then re-download it thru the App? That takes minutes and 5+ steps. When I've already Airdropped the file in seconds on my Apple device by tapping "send". iMessage/Apple products are about convenience and ease of use. Apple is the best in both of those categories.
  - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
    > Asking somebody non-techy to switch messaging apps just isn't going to happen. It's happening everywhere in the world apart from the USA so that's clearly not where the blockage is. It has more to do with iMessage having a critical mass of users in the USA. > I can airdrop a 1GB+ file instantly to any Apple device. How do I transfer a 1GB file to somebody on Android or on a PC? Upload to google drive? then re-download it thru the App? That takes minutes and 5+ steps. Apple competitors have technology which are similar to airdrop notably Huawei and there are plenty of apps offering solutions to this issue. I like airdrop but generally speaking Android sharing options are superior to iOS. It is easier to send anything towards any apps on Android which makes your point about the 5+ steps kind of moot in my opinion. > iMessage/Apple products are about convenience and ease of use. Apple is the best in both of those categories. iMessage is mostly about captive markets and network effect. Then again, I like my iphone. It's well made and it somewhat works as a status symbol which I have nothing against. I just don't try to pretend that Apple wins by being the best.
    - windowsrookie 5y ago
      >It's happening everywhere in the world apart from the USA so that's clearly not where the blockage is. It has more to do with iMessage having a critical mass of users in the USA. Outside of the USA people are "switching" messaging Apps? Or just continuing to use what they have always used? >Apple competitors have technology which are similar to airdrop notably Huawei. Nobody uses Huawei here in the US so that point is moot. >and there are plenty of apps offering solutions to this issue. I like airdrop but generally speaking Android sharing options are superior to iOS. What are these Android sharing options that are superior to iOS? Do they have to be installed? iOS has Airdrop built in requiring no installation or configuration. If they have to be installed they are automatically not superior. >It is easier to send anything towards any apps on Android which makes your point about the 5+ steps kind of moot in my opinion. No it isn't? I have used both Samsung and Apple devices for 10+ years. It is always easier to share between iOS devices and Macs.
conductr 5y ago
I don’t buy the lock in argument. Not because it’s false but because every thing has lock in to some extent. It’s just user preference, taste, and familiarity are stronger than losing app purchases. People used to completely repurchase their music collection every 10 years or so. Albums, 8 tracks, cassettes, CDs, etc. They value reliably that Apple is known for and the risk of changing and not liking another platform is large. New users look at their friends and think, “everyone seems to like iPhone. Seems like a safe bet even though it’s expensive”. I’d argue it’s still not expensive given how much utility they provide. I find analogies useful. When I was young I started eating fries with ketchup. As an adult, I don’t get to say ketchup lacks competition because I don’t like other condiments. Even within the ketchup vertical, I have a brand preference. I could buy a store brand and save 50% but I don’t. I like what I like and I pay for it. Non iPhone users either don’t like iOS or just don’t want to pay the premium Apple charges, otherwise I’d argue many more people would be on iPhone.
- wpietri 5y ago
  Apple has lock-in to a much stronger extent. There is very little lock-in between Android phones; you can easily switch brands. And the point about iMessage and the other iWhatevers is important. Apple intentionally avoided interoperability. This goes beyond lock-in to contagion. I know people who didn't really want to get their young kids iPhones, because they weren't really old enough to be responsible for something so expensive. But they felt they had to do it anyhow because of the lack of interoperability. So they ended up buying multiple kid iPhones as the phones were lost, smashed, etc. I get that's not very expensive for the kind of people who hang out on HN, but it's real money to most.
- mohanmcgeek 5y ago
  What are the conditions that should be fulfilled for you to see that there's competition in the market? For me, it's the existence of a player that can squeeze the margin for others. With only seller giving people access to iMessage and app store, I don't see this condition fulfilled. Even if there is a well made phone that offers better utility for half the price, most users would just wait for iPhone to catch up rather than switch. I don't want to draw very bad comparisons: but this is very similar to the AWS lock-in with egress, except instead of data, you have iMessage and apps you've already bought..

zepto 5y ago

How many App Store purchases matter? I’ve bought hundreds of apps over the years, but really don’t care about them. Nobody uses a lot of paid apps, and a lot of them have moved to subscriptions anyway.

thefounder 5y ago

Why would you need iMessages? I don't find it more useful than old school sms messaging. If you want secure messaging perhaps whatsup or signal are better options anyway.

colinmhayes 5y ago
It's much, much faster than sms. Many of my friends refuse to get whatsapp let alone signal.
- conductr 5y ago
  I to refuse to use other messaging apps but I find it hard to blame apple for creating a messaging app that people love/like enough to refuse using competing messaging apps. That's not lack of competition or lock in. That's just user preference, I prefer to keep it all in the same place. I don't need the extra feature of speed. Texting is async to me so speed it never noticeable. So I don't really care if you SMS me or iMessage me.
acdha 5y ago
It's more reliable and faster than SMS, removes the size limits, far more secure, and supports a lot of modern features (non-terrible media quality, received/read notifications, threading, app embeds, etc.) Signal tries to offer that but isn't as polished. The Facebook services like WhatsApp are good and cross-platform but that involves trusting Facebook heavily.
mohanmcgeek 5y ago
Network effect: Even if someone feels signal is better, they can't convince their whole group to start using signal. I don't use an iPhone. This is the reason I heard from iphone users.
- conductr 5y ago
  iMessage and sms are the same app though, my android using friends can text me all the same
windowsrookie 5y ago
In the United States iMessage is almost the default messenger. I don't know anybody that uses WhatsApp, Telegram, or Signal. iMessage requires no extra setup its already there by default when you buy an iPhone. Asking somebody non-techy to switch messaging apps just isn't going to happen. With iMessage you can send high resolution photos and videos, which may seem like not a big deal. But it is. Sending a message between Android and iOS uses mms and the photo/video is compressed to an unusable state. I can airdrop a 1GB+ file instantly to any Apple device. How do I transfer a 1GB file to somebody on Android or on a PC? Upload to google drive? then re-download it thru the App? That takes minutes and 5+ steps. When I've already Airdropped the file in seconds on my Apple device by tapping "send". iMessage/Apple products are about convenience and ease of use. Apple is the best in both of those categories.
- WastingMyTime89 5y ago
  > Asking somebody non-techy to switch messaging apps just isn't going to happen. It's happening everywhere in the world apart from the USA so that's clearly not where the blockage is. It has more to do with iMessage having a critical mass of users in the USA. > I can airdrop a 1GB+ file instantly to any Apple device. How do I transfer a 1GB file to somebody on Android or on a PC? Upload to google drive? then re-download it thru the App? That takes minutes and 5+ steps. Apple competitors have technology which are similar to airdrop notably Huawei and there are plenty of apps offering solutions to this issue. I like airdrop but generally speaking Android sharing options are superior to iOS. It is easier to send anything towards any apps on Android which makes your point about the 5+ steps kind of moot in my opinion. > iMessage/Apple products are about convenience and ease of use. Apple is the best in both of those categories. iMessage is mostly about captive markets and network effect. Then again, I like my iphone. It's well made and it somewhat works as a status symbol which I have nothing against. I just don't try to pretend that Apple wins by being the best.
  - windowsrookie 5y ago
    >It's happening everywhere in the world apart from the USA so that's clearly not where the blockage is. It has more to do with iMessage having a critical mass of users in the USA. Outside of the USA people are "switching" messaging Apps? Or just continuing to use what they have always used? >Apple competitors have technology which are similar to airdrop notably Huawei. Nobody uses Huawei here in the US so that point is moot. >and there are plenty of apps offering solutions to this issue. I like airdrop but generally speaking Android sharing options are superior to iOS. What are these Android sharing options that are superior to iOS? Do they have to be installed? iOS has Airdrop built in requiring no installation or configuration. If they have to be installed they are automatically not superior. >It is easier to send anything towards any apps on Android which makes your point about the 5+ steps kind of moot in my opinion. No it isn't? I have used both Samsung and Apple devices for 10+ years. It is always easier to share between iOS devices and Macs.

conductr 5y ago

I don’t buy the lock in argument. Not because it’s false but because every thing has lock in to some extent. It’s just user preference, taste, and familiarity are stronger than losing app purchases. People used to completely repurchase their music collection every 10 years or so. Albums, 8 tracks, cassettes, CDs, etc. They value reliably that Apple is known for and the risk of changing and not liking another platform is large. New users look at their friends and think, “everyone seems to like iPhone. Seems like a safe bet even though it’s expensive”. I’d argue it’s still not expensive given how much utility they provide. I find analogies useful. When I was young I started eating fries with ketchup. As an adult, I don’t get to say ketchup lacks competition because I don’t like other condiments. Even within the ketchup vertical, I have a brand preference. I could buy a store brand and save 50% but I don’t. I like what I like and I pay for it. Non iPhone users either don’t like iOS or just don’t want to pay the premium Apple charges, otherwise I’d argue many more people would be on iPhone.

wpietri 5y ago
Apple has lock-in to a much stronger extent. There is very little lock-in between Android phones; you can easily switch brands. And the point about iMessage and the other iWhatevers is important. Apple intentionally avoided interoperability. This goes beyond lock-in to contagion. I know people who didn't really want to get their young kids iPhones, because they weren't really old enough to be responsible for something so expensive. But they felt they had to do it anyhow because of the lack of interoperability. So they ended up buying multiple kid iPhones as the phones were lost, smashed, etc. I get that's not very expensive for the kind of people who hang out on HN, but it's real money to most.
mohanmcgeek 5y ago
What are the conditions that should be fulfilled for you to see that there's competition in the market? For me, it's the existence of a player that can squeeze the margin for others. With only seller giving people access to iMessage and app store, I don't see this condition fulfilled. Even if there is a well made phone that offers better utility for half the price, most users would just wait for iPhone to catch up rather than switch. I don't want to draw very bad comparisons: but this is very similar to the AWS lock-in with egress, except instead of data, you have iMessage and apps you've already bought..