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these whistleblowers are going to turn every company into a surveillance operation every company will soon adopt mandatory spyware, bossware, keyboard logging

by newaccount2021 5y ago

these whistleblowers are going to turn every company into a surveillance operation every company will soon adopt mandatory spyware, bossware, keyboard logging etc etc just to prevent the next Haugen hope it was worth it

burnished 5y ago
No, the people that design, implement, or purchase spyware are going to turn companies into surveillance organizations. It's weird to blame whistleblowers here.
scrollaway 5y ago
How is that the whistleblower’s fault? “Damn these pedestrians dying to drunk drivers forcing governments to make drunk driving illegal” what?
- gorgoiler 5y ago
  It’s their fault if the alleged behaviour isn’t illegal enough. No one’s going to blame a whistleblower who uncovers someone harming children. It becomes much more of a gray area if the whistleblower uncovers someone trying to find out what effects, positive and negative if any kind, harmful, long-term, short-term or otherwise, that their product might be having. Is a leak worthy if no one is arrested or taken to court, and all we get to do is tut-tut a little more sanctimoniously?
  - eropple 5y ago
    > No one’s going to blame a whistleblower who uncovers someone harming children. Of course they are. The idea that "no one", even in the vernacular sense of the term, will blame a whistleblower for literally anything is naive; there are too many people who are terminally incapable of faulting a C corporation for acting against the body politic. > It becomes much more of a gray area if the whistleblower uncovers someone trying to find out what effects, positive and negative if any kind, harmful, long-term, short-term or otherwise, that their product might be having. Not when those people doing that investigation find something they don't like and bury it because it's inconvenient for their bottom line. Which Facebook did. It's not a gray area at all. Not in the slightest. > Is a leak worthy if no one is arrested or taken to court, and all we get to do is tut-tut a little more sanctimoniously? Yes, it is an unmistakable good to have the operations of megacorporations with more effective power than many governments as transparent as possible. People matter more than companies, and the behaviors of those companies are fundamentally relevant to the behavior of people in their polities. A company at Facebook's scale (or Apple's, etc.) should have no secrets not directly related to user or employee privacy. If they don't want to have eyes on them, don't be megacorporations. We've seen far too many diseconomies of scale with regards to fundamental and foundational morality to assume anything else.
notacrapceo 5y ago
Not every company. I would never run my company with sociopath-ware and will proudly tell every candidate that we actually trust them, unlike FB, Google, Apple... This will have the effect of weakening these paranoid, power-tripping companies, as high end employees flee to companies that respect them and their time.
- wang_li 5y ago
  Can you think of anything that can't be misused? E.g. if a kid eats enough salad they're going to get fat. Does that mean we should "blow the whistle" on lettuce producers and implement dramatic regulations? Or should we expect parents to be parents and monitor and regulate their child's eating habits? Or in this case, monitor and regulate their child's facebook/instagram use? (Also, we should try and recognize that not agreeing with someone and leaking their internal communications about something that is fully legal, is not whistleblowing.)
  - notacrapceo 5y ago
    This seems like a non-sequitur to my comment. I'm saying that companies that don't spy on their employees will win the best employees. That being said, FB and salad have nothing to do with each other. One is a spyware/adware company, the other is a healthy meal. I applaud the whistleblower.
  - JAlexoid 5y ago
    It's in Facebook's interest to increase engagement, even if it destroys people's lives. A morbidly obese depressed kid is much more valuable to Facebook, than an active and mentally stable kid. We should realize that and stop pretending that Facebook is anything but a leech on our mental health. I realized that a while ago and had to literally tell Facebook recruiters to GF themselves.
lovecg 5y ago
That’s pretty common in the industry already. Don’t assume you have any privacy when using company’s devices.
tacobelllover99 5y ago
lmao believing Haugen is a real whistleblower.

burnished 5y ago

No, the people that design, implement, or purchase spyware are going to turn companies into surveillance organizations. It's weird to blame whistleblowers here.

scrollaway 5y ago

How is that the whistleblower’s fault? “Damn these pedestrians dying to drunk drivers forcing governments to make drunk driving illegal” what?

gorgoiler 5y ago
It’s their fault if the alleged behaviour isn’t illegal enough. No one’s going to blame a whistleblower who uncovers someone harming children. It becomes much more of a gray area if the whistleblower uncovers someone trying to find out what effects, positive and negative if any kind, harmful, long-term, short-term or otherwise, that their product might be having. Is a leak worthy if no one is arrested or taken to court, and all we get to do is tut-tut a little more sanctimoniously?
- eropple 5y ago
  > No one’s going to blame a whistleblower who uncovers someone harming children. Of course they are. The idea that "no one", even in the vernacular sense of the term, will blame a whistleblower for literally anything is naive; there are too many people who are terminally incapable of faulting a C corporation for acting against the body politic. > It becomes much more of a gray area if the whistleblower uncovers someone trying to find out what effects, positive and negative if any kind, harmful, long-term, short-term or otherwise, that their product might be having. Not when those people doing that investigation find something they don't like and bury it because it's inconvenient for their bottom line. Which Facebook did. It's not a gray area at all. Not in the slightest. > Is a leak worthy if no one is arrested or taken to court, and all we get to do is tut-tut a little more sanctimoniously? Yes, it is an unmistakable good to have the operations of megacorporations with more effective power than many governments as transparent as possible. People matter more than companies, and the behaviors of those companies are fundamentally relevant to the behavior of people in their polities. A company at Facebook's scale (or Apple's, etc.) should have no secrets not directly related to user or employee privacy. If they don't want to have eyes on them, don't be megacorporations. We've seen far too many diseconomies of scale with regards to fundamental and foundational morality to assume anything else.

notacrapceo 5y ago

Not every company. I would never run my company with sociopath-ware and will proudly tell every candidate that we actually trust them, unlike FB, Google, Apple... This will have the effect of weakening these paranoid, power-tripping companies, as high end employees flee to companies that respect them and their time.

wang_li 5y ago
Can you think of anything that can't be misused? E.g. if a kid eats enough salad they're going to get fat. Does that mean we should "blow the whistle" on lettuce producers and implement dramatic regulations? Or should we expect parents to be parents and monitor and regulate their child's eating habits? Or in this case, monitor and regulate their child's facebook/instagram use? (Also, we should try and recognize that not agreeing with someone and leaking their internal communications about something that is fully legal, is not whistleblowing.)
- notacrapceo 5y ago
  This seems like a non-sequitur to my comment. I'm saying that companies that don't spy on their employees will win the best employees. That being said, FB and salad have nothing to do with each other. One is a spyware/adware company, the other is a healthy meal. I applaud the whistleblower.
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  It's in Facebook's interest to increase engagement, even if it destroys people's lives. A morbidly obese depressed kid is much more valuable to Facebook, than an active and mentally stable kid. We should realize that and stop pretending that Facebook is anything but a leech on our mental health. I realized that a while ago and had to literally tell Facebook recruiters to GF themselves.

lovecg 5y ago

That’s pretty common in the industry already. Don’t assume you have any privacy when using company’s devices.

tacobelllover99 5y ago

lmao believing Haugen is a real whistleblower.