4 ms·

I find that interesting, especially for countries like Korea or Japan. The stereotype of those cultures is sort of passive, and accepting of the status quo. And

I find that interesting, especially for countries like Korea or Japan. The stereotype of those cultures is sort of passive, and accepting of the status quo. And yet, when anonymous, the fangs come out, if not even more pointed. I'm sure there's something there, but I'm not a social scientist. Anyone with experience in sociology/psychology have an idea what that's about?

joeberon 5y ago
I think it's precisely because of that collectivism, which leads to much harsher punishment of outliers.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  Yes, accurate, with tacit approval of the masses, too. Which makes things even worse.
- kelseyfrog 5y ago
  Hmm, I always thought conformity-culture was the cause of social accountability of outliers. My go to example for this is the highly individual valuing, yet Patagonia vest wearing finance bros. Conformity without collectivism. It's a thing and it's much more insidious than the collectivism-conformity script we got growing up.
elzbardico 5y ago
I always thought that the more you repress aggression and competition, specially in human males, the more it will end up being expressed anyway, but in bursts or in passive-aggressive ways. Of course, this is just a personal hypothesis.
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  This is self-evident, especially in the West. Girls are getting further and further ahead in education because they are obedient, and not unruly and full of energy like boys. And no one gives a shit. It's instead touted as some victory for feminism or something.
  - joeberon 5y ago
    Unfortunately that bites them with a lack of confidence and taking risks in the future. However that is mainly due to patriarchy and internalised misogyny in my experience.
    - orangepurple 5y ago
      It may also be elevated self-doubt when doing something logically sound but overall risky over an extended period without social validation, and not patriarchy or misogyny.
      - joeberon 5y ago
        Why would that affect women more than men?
    - Chris2048 5y ago
      Problem is that the "feminist" label is so simplistic as to miss all nuance ala: all that is "good for women" is "feminist". Is being successful in school good? yes. Is being successful in later life good? yes. So you cannot consider the "successful school dropout". "risk taking" is the missed nuance, or "it has to get worse before it gets better"/"break a bone to set the leg" etc. Instead you have the only "feminist" path as (cherry-picked populations of) girls doing well in school and successes later in life, even if those don't necessarily/naturally correlate. If you really wanted to capture that nuance, you need the kind of discussions Jordan Peterson has wrt personality/behavioural traits and their impacts on differences in outcomes; but you can clearly see how much hostility (in the name of feminism) he receives for that. The funny thing is how he's accused of (sex/gender) essentialism, even if backed by stats/data, despite the advocated feminist alternatives being also full of essentialism (and just-so narratives), just ones seen as more culturally palatable.
taneq 5y ago
John Gabriel's Greater Internet F*&kwad Theory explains it succinctly (language warning): https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/325/699/4fc.jpg https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/325/699/4fc...
dartharva 5y ago
>The stereotype of those cultures is sort of passive, and accepting of the status quo. And yet, when anonymous, the fangs come out, if not even more pointed. I think because can be a better replacement for yet in this sentence. Repression very often leads to higher intensity.

joeberon 5y ago

I think it's precisely because of that collectivism, which leads to much harsher punishment of outliers.

ekianjo 5y ago
Yes, accurate, with tacit approval of the masses, too. Which makes things even worse.
kelseyfrog 5y ago
Hmm, I always thought conformity-culture was the cause of social accountability of outliers. My go to example for this is the highly individual valuing, yet Patagonia vest wearing finance bros. Conformity without collectivism. It's a thing and it's much more insidious than the collectivism-conformity script we got growing up.

elzbardico 5y ago

I always thought that the more you repress aggression and competition, specially in human males, the more it will end up being expressed anyway, but in bursts or in passive-aggressive ways. Of course, this is just a personal hypothesis.

JohnWhigham 5y ago
This is self-evident, especially in the West. Girls are getting further and further ahead in education because they are obedient, and not unruly and full of energy like boys. And no one gives a shit. It's instead touted as some victory for feminism or something.
- joeberon 5y ago
  Unfortunately that bites them with a lack of confidence and taking risks in the future. However that is mainly due to patriarchy and internalised misogyny in my experience.
  - orangepurple 5y ago
    It may also be elevated self-doubt when doing something logically sound but overall risky over an extended period without social validation, and not patriarchy or misogyny.
    - joeberon 5y ago
      Why would that affect women more than men?
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    Problem is that the "feminist" label is so simplistic as to miss all nuance ala: all that is "good for women" is "feminist". Is being successful in school good? yes. Is being successful in later life good? yes. So you cannot consider the "successful school dropout". "risk taking" is the missed nuance, or "it has to get worse before it gets better"/"break a bone to set the leg" etc. Instead you have the only "feminist" path as (cherry-picked populations of) girls doing well in school and successes later in life, even if those don't necessarily/naturally correlate. If you really wanted to capture that nuance, you need the kind of discussions Jordan Peterson has wrt personality/behavioural traits and their impacts on differences in outcomes; but you can clearly see how much hostility (in the name of feminism) he receives for that. The funny thing is how he's accused of (sex/gender) essentialism, even if backed by stats/data, despite the advocated feminist alternatives being also full of essentialism (and just-so narratives), just ones seen as more culturally palatable.

taneq 5y ago

John Gabriel's Greater Internet F*&kwad Theory explains it succinctly (language warning): https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/325/699/4fc.jpg https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/325/699/4fc...

dartharva 5y ago

>The stereotype of those cultures is sort of passive, and accepting of the status quo. And yet, when anonymous, the fangs come out, if not even more pointed. I think because can be a better replacement for yet in this sentence. Repression very often leads to higher intensity.