9 ms·

The best numbers I could find for the US were these: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide Whi

by new299 5y ago

The best numbers I could find for the US were these: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide Which looks like 5 per 100000 for 10 to 14 year olds? The Japanese population in this age range is ~5M: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan So at the US rate we’d except ~250 suicides in Japan if the rate was the same as the US. Over the 12 to 15 range in Japan the article states there were 103 suicides. The rates seem roughly comparable therefore? It terrible that this is increasing, but it would be interesting to understand if this is unique to Japan or not.

0des 5y ago
> The rates seem roughly comparable therefore? Is this asking a question? Edit: Today I learned the best course for a non native speaker is to not ask questions.
- SirHound 5y ago
  It’s an open offer for someone who understands better to clarify or confirm incase OP has missed something from their calculations.
  - 0des 5y ago
    It's confusing when people end what appears to be a declarative statement with a question mark, not sure why I'd get in trouble for asking.
    - Hoppetosse 5y ago
      It can also be an artifact of a foreign language. The french interrogatory form can be the same as the declarative. It seems likely in this case, their use of "therefore" is equivalent to the fench "alors" which is often employed to "interrogate a declaration"
    - someotherperson 5y ago
      It's the written equivalent of uptalk[0], I wouldn't say it is uncommon at all. It would only really be confusing the first time you come across it -- like most things. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal
      - stan_rogers 5y ago
        Not without an ellipsis it's not.
    - SirHound 5y ago
      You're not in trouble?
    - some0x80070005 5y ago
      Generally speaking, this situation does not seem confusing for many native speakers. The question mark indicates uncertainty about the statement instead of asking “<Statement>. Can anyone refute this or provide insight to the original significance?”. In this case, the author drew a conclusion about other data which seems to make the original article seem less important or less significant, but instead of declaring it as a fact outright, the author is choosing to mark it with uncertainty instead which will invite a discussion if they are wrong on some aspect of it.
      - 0des 5y ago
        > this situation does not seem confusing for many native speakers English was not my first language, and this peculiar phrasing confused me. Asking for clarity seems like a natural thing to do in this situation.
        hutzlibu 5y ago
        It is, but it came of as criticism to me, because using the question mark this way is quite common here on HN and elsewhere.
        0des 5y ago
        I apologize heartily for offending you, that is not my intent.
        hutzlibu 5y ago
        You did not offend me(with the first post) and I did not downvote you. I just explained, why you received negative feedback - basically missunderstanding. But talking about missunderstanding: I understand your last comment as snarky, unwarranted sarcasm. This I would downvote.
        necovek 5y ago
        FWIW, does not read sarcastic from the sidelines. And as mentioned elsewhere, the entire thread seems like a good natured discussion: perhaps it felt different without the original "edit".
    - ivanbakel 5y ago
      >not sure why I'd get in trouble for asking. Both of your comments can be construed as linguistic pedantry. Particularly, saying "it's confusing" rather than e.g. "I find it confusing" is pretty prescriptive - and it just sounds like you're doubling down on your first comment. If you want to ask a question about a feature of language, it helps to add the context that you're unfamiliar with the language itself. Otherwise, most readers will assume that you're attempting to correct the user you're replying to. Commenting on people's use of language is considered quite rude in most internet communities - not least because of the number of ESL users.
    - Gravityloss 5y ago
      I used this process, and came up with the numbers, 140 and 250, and they are kind of close in my opinion, though I'm not 100% sure. What do you think? shortened, becomes: I used this process, and came up with these numbers, 140 and 250, and they are kind of close? Why you got in trouble: people thought you were criticizing the original comment for hiding a statement to look like a question. (A common underhanded tactic to do and a common criticism - "was that a question?".)
- pier25 5y ago
  Putting a question mark at the end like this imitates the change of intonation when speaking with uncertainty. Eg: I think I left the phone in my car. Vs I think I left the phone in my car? While technically incorrect in written English, this is very common in casual speaking and has found its way into casual writing.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  In spoken English, this would be expressed by ending the sentence with an exaggerated pitch change for the question and a pause; it’s a way to indicate uncertainty and give someone else an opportunity to affirm or provide a contrary opinion without conflict. Rendering it in written English is not correct per formal rules, you’d probably never see this in an English textbook, but it’s a semi-common colloquialism in forums like these.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Tade0 5y ago
> It terrible that this is increasing, but it would be interesting to understand if this is unique to Japan or not. Unfortunately not. The suicide capital of the world (including teenagers) is currently South Korea: http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190501000216 http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190501000216 which has the highest suicide rate among countries with a population of more than 5mln: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-rate-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-r...
- murph-almighty 5y ago
  Maybe a total coincidence that I read this morbid news on South Korea while I've started watching Squid Game, but watching a show that's effectively an allegory of capitalist decline in South Korea makes this news not surprising.
  - canadianfella 5y ago
    What are you talking about?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - staysafeanon 5y ago
    >capitalist decline in South Korea makes this news not surprising. South Korea is on a capitalist upswing, not decline. People forget that South Korea was worse off than most of Africa after the Korean War. Capitalism and democracy is what saved them. Look at their brother to the North if you want to see a real decline.
    - femiagbabiaka 5y ago
      things can be good and bad for different reasons at the same time
    - taurath 5y ago
      Perhaps, though you would be wrong about the state of things - Korea had a fairly big manufacturing base when taken over by Japan, so in a way they had more infrastructure already built that just needed to be repaired or upgraded. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule “Capitalism” being called as a reason for success sort of also implies that there is something strong and special about Koreans in that they can make it work, where there are countless other examples of capitalistic societies leading to massive corruption - and indeed Korea has massive megacorps owned by just a few families that are de facto governments in themselves.
ashtonkem 5y ago
Last time I looked into it, Japan’s suicide numbers were not as high as I’d been primed to expect. Japans suicide rate is less than America’s (14.5 vs 12.2 per 100k), and roughly equivalent to Sweden 12.4) and Norway (11.8). Still relatively elevated for OECD countries, but Japan’s reputation as an extremely high suicide rate country appears to be unearned. Countries like South Korea (21.2), Russia (21.6), Lithuania (20.2), and Ukraine (17.7) should generally get more attention on this matter than Japan does.
- neaden 5y ago
  This could be the difference between suicidality and completion of suicide. Firearms are linked to an increase of completed suicides but not attempts, which could explain the US's higher rate.
  - naasking 5y ago
    Also, Japan has a much larger aging population, so their cultural threshold for what's an "acceptable" suicide rate among the young could be much lower.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    Access to firearms has certainly been shown to affect suicide rates, especially among men, given how surprisingly impulsive suicides are. But it's not sufficient, given that there are other countries with higher suicide rates and fewer firearms. Also, while America has a lot of guns, there's also a lot of variance. The stats are a bit hard to compute, but there appear to be some states in the US that have fewer firearms per capita than some other countries, notably Switzerland, Canada, and Finland. It's also worth pointing out that suicide by firearm is largely a male thing. In the United States women attempt suicide at 3x the rate that men do, but they tend to die because of that at a much lower rate (22.4 for men, 6.8 for women). The rate of completed female suicides is currently rising faster for women than men, worryingly. It's complicated, basically. And as always discussing suicide creates a contagion risk. If you're experiencing suicidal thoughts, please know that help is available at the national suicide prevention hotline, 800-273-8255.

by new299 5y ago

0des 5y ago

> The rates seem roughly comparable therefore? Is this asking a question? Edit: Today I learned the best course for a non native speaker is to not ask questions.

SirHound 5y ago
It’s an open offer for someone who understands better to clarify or confirm incase OP has missed something from their calculations.
- 0des 5y ago
  It's confusing when people end what appears to be a declarative statement with a question mark, not sure why I'd get in trouble for asking.
  - Hoppetosse 5y ago
    It can also be an artifact of a foreign language. The french interrogatory form can be the same as the declarative. It seems likely in this case, their use of "therefore" is equivalent to the fench "alors" which is often employed to "interrogate a declaration"
  - someotherperson 5y ago
    It's the written equivalent of uptalk[0], I wouldn't say it is uncommon at all. It would only really be confusing the first time you come across it -- like most things. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal
    - stan_rogers 5y ago
      Not without an ellipsis it's not.
  - SirHound 5y ago
    You're not in trouble?
  - some0x80070005 5y ago
    Generally speaking, this situation does not seem confusing for many native speakers. The question mark indicates uncertainty about the statement instead of asking “<Statement>. Can anyone refute this or provide insight to the original significance?”. In this case, the author drew a conclusion about other data which seems to make the original article seem less important or less significant, but instead of declaring it as a fact outright, the author is choosing to mark it with uncertainty instead which will invite a discussion if they are wrong on some aspect of it.
    - 0des 5y ago
      > this situation does not seem confusing for many native speakers English was not my first language, and this peculiar phrasing confused me. Asking for clarity seems like a natural thing to do in this situation.
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        It is, but it came of as criticism to me, because using the question mark this way is quite common here on HN and elsewhere.
        0des 5y ago
        I apologize heartily for offending you, that is not my intent.
        hutzlibu 5y ago
        You did not offend me(with the first post) and I did not downvote you. I just explained, why you received negative feedback - basically missunderstanding. But talking about missunderstanding: I understand your last comment as snarky, unwarranted sarcasm. This I would downvote.
        necovek 5y ago
        FWIW, does not read sarcastic from the sidelines. And as mentioned elsewhere, the entire thread seems like a good natured discussion: perhaps it felt different without the original "edit".
  - ivanbakel 5y ago
    >not sure why I'd get in trouble for asking. Both of your comments can be construed as linguistic pedantry. Particularly, saying "it's confusing" rather than e.g. "I find it confusing" is pretty prescriptive - and it just sounds like you're doubling down on your first comment. If you want to ask a question about a feature of language, it helps to add the context that you're unfamiliar with the language itself. Otherwise, most readers will assume that you're attempting to correct the user you're replying to. Commenting on people's use of language is considered quite rude in most internet communities - not least because of the number of ESL users.
  - Gravityloss 5y ago
    I used this process, and came up with the numbers, 140 and 250, and they are kind of close in my opinion, though I'm not 100% sure. What do you think? shortened, becomes: I used this process, and came up with these numbers, 140 and 250, and they are kind of close? Why you got in trouble: people thought you were criticizing the original comment for hiding a statement to look like a question. (A common underhanded tactic to do and a common criticism - "was that a question?".)
pier25 5y ago
Putting a question mark at the end like this imitates the change of intonation when speaking with uncertainty. Eg: I think I left the phone in my car. Vs I think I left the phone in my car? While technically incorrect in written English, this is very common in casual speaking and has found its way into casual writing.
ashtonkem 5y ago
In spoken English, this would be expressed by ending the sentence with an exaggerated pitch change for the question and a pause; it’s a way to indicate uncertainty and give someone else an opportunity to affirm or provide a contrary opinion without conflict. Rendering it in written English is not correct per formal rules, you’d probably never see this in an English textbook, but it’s a semi-common colloquialism in forums like these.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Tade0 5y ago

> It terrible that this is increasing, but it would be interesting to understand if this is unique to Japan or not. Unfortunately not. The suicide capital of the world (including teenagers) is currently South Korea: http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190501000216 http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190501000216 which has the highest suicide rate among countries with a population of more than 5mln: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-rate-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-r...

murph-almighty 5y ago
Maybe a total coincidence that I read this morbid news on South Korea while I've started watching Squid Game, but watching a show that's effectively an allegory of capitalist decline in South Korea makes this news not surprising.
- canadianfella 5y ago
  What are you talking about?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- staysafeanon 5y ago
  >capitalist decline in South Korea makes this news not surprising. South Korea is on a capitalist upswing, not decline. People forget that South Korea was worse off than most of Africa after the Korean War. Capitalism and democracy is what saved them. Look at their brother to the North if you want to see a real decline.
  - femiagbabiaka 5y ago
    things can be good and bad for different reasons at the same time
  - taurath 5y ago
    Perhaps, though you would be wrong about the state of things - Korea had a fairly big manufacturing base when taken over by Japan, so in a way they had more infrastructure already built that just needed to be repaired or upgraded. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule “Capitalism” being called as a reason for success sort of also implies that there is something strong and special about Koreans in that they can make it work, where there are countless other examples of capitalistic societies leading to massive corruption - and indeed Korea has massive megacorps owned by just a few families that are de facto governments in themselves.

ashtonkem 5y ago

Last time I looked into it, Japan’s suicide numbers were not as high as I’d been primed to expect. Japans suicide rate is less than America’s (14.5 vs 12.2 per 100k), and roughly equivalent to Sweden 12.4) and Norway (11.8). Still relatively elevated for OECD countries, but Japan’s reputation as an extremely high suicide rate country appears to be unearned. Countries like South Korea (21.2), Russia (21.6), Lithuania (20.2), and Ukraine (17.7) should generally get more attention on this matter than Japan does.

neaden 5y ago
This could be the difference between suicidality and completion of suicide. Firearms are linked to an increase of completed suicides but not attempts, which could explain the US's higher rate.
- naasking 5y ago
  Also, Japan has a much larger aging population, so their cultural threshold for what's an "acceptable" suicide rate among the young could be much lower.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  Access to firearms has certainly been shown to affect suicide rates, especially among men, given how surprisingly impulsive suicides are. But it's not sufficient, given that there are other countries with higher suicide rates and fewer firearms. Also, while America has a lot of guns, there's also a lot of variance. The stats are a bit hard to compute, but there appear to be some states in the US that have fewer firearms per capita than some other countries, notably Switzerland, Canada, and Finland. It's also worth pointing out that suicide by firearm is largely a male thing. In the United States women attempt suicide at 3x the rate that men do, but they tend to die because of that at a much lower rate (22.4 for men, 6.8 for women). The rate of completed female suicides is currently rising faster for women than men, worryingly. It's complicated, basically. And as always discussing suicide creates a contagion risk. If you're experiencing suicidal thoughts, please know that help is available at the national suicide prevention hotline, 800-273-8255.