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The first thing I really like about syncthing is that it does what it is supposed to do very well (besides very seldom glitches), while not being dropbox, nextc

by bipson 5y ago

The first thing I really like about syncthing is that it does what it is supposed to do very well (besides very seldom glitches), while not being dropbox, nextcloud, owncloud, etc. but p2p and entirely independent of any external tools/devices/etc. The second thing I like is that it is a successful FOSS project, meaning it works and is being regularly and often improved by its users. Your comment, as helpful as you may feel it is, is contradictory to my second - very strong - feeling. I really think to UI works quite good, and by god, if a better solution is so obvious to you, why haven't you proposed it yet, or - god forbid - made a merge/pull request??

dolni 5y ago
> and by god, if a better solution is so obvious to you, why haven't you proposed it yet, or - god forbid - made a merge/pull request?? Because there isn't any obligation to? Why do you think you would be entitled to ask for that?
- djbusby 5y ago
  Aren't they just suggesting to open a bug/issue in place of complaining on HN? Seems a fair, small ask to me.
  - dolni 5y ago
    There is a discussion being had. This guy was sharing his opinion about syncthing. That still doesn't obligate him to open a bug or do any work for the project.
- mPReDiToR 5y ago
  "Entitled to ask"? I think freedom of speech allows for it. Can I have a million pounds, from you personally, please? Also, that might be the small nudge which potentially has a user actually contribute in some circumstances. I'm not sure your question is fair.
  - dolni 5y ago
    Perhaps "entitled to ask" is a poor choice of words. Yes, freedom of speech allows bipson to ask about contributing. It still comes across as entitled. The question was clearly laden with some expectation that Reventlov should go do work for syncthing instead of sharing an opinion on Hacker News. We're just here having a conversation. The expectation that a user MUST do something for an open source project because they have an issue is a tired take. It's not as though Reventlov is blowing up Syncthing's development team with demands about how to make it better. And, for all any of us know, Reventlov may have already submitted PRs or opened issues for Syncthing. Or, it could be the case that there's a different piece of software suiting their needs better, and that's fine. Or, Reventlov maybe just doesn't possess the technical skill to contribute in that way. And that's okay too. Bludgeoning people with an open source virtue-stick for sharing an opinion isn't helpful.
    - bipson 5y ago
      Hmm, fair point. But just as much as you consider an "expectation that a user MUST do something for an open source project" is a tired point, I consider the endless ranting by entitled FOSS users an obnoxious trend. And btw. I never said something about "must", I asked why not choosing - OK, maybe strongly suggesting - another option. Maybe you took my question the wrong way, but (maybe just as much misguided) I took the "opinion"/"discussion" not as opinion, but for the lack of any helpful suggestion as merely a rant. I was raised not to needlessly complain about free things, without considering to take things into my own hands. And even if you don't know how to code, suggestions and discussions are better had in an issue tracker, right? Otherwise, what's the point? If one is not a user, and considers something else to be better, why voice such a strong opinion?
      - dolni 5y ago
        > I consider the endless ranting by entitled FOSS users an obnoxious trend. There is a massive difference between voicing your opinion about something in a public discussion forum and hounding the developers of a project because they don't fix bugs or implement new features on your say-so. One of those is making conversation, the other is entitlement. > Maybe you took my question the wrong way, but (maybe just as much misguided) I took the "opinion"/"discussion" not as opinion, but for the lack of any helpful suggestion as merely a rant. Sometimes, you can recognize that something is bad without knowing the best way to fix it. > I was raised not to needlessly complain about free things, without considering to take things into my own hands. Okay, so that was how you were raised and how you operate. I don't see the reply as needless complaining. It is a critique of some specific issues. It was constructive criticism, because it presented a specific set of things that could be improved upon. I happen to agree with those criticisms, even though I generally think Syncthing is a great piece of software. > And even if you don't know how to code, suggestions and discussions are better had in an issue tracker, right? Otherwise, what's the point? What's the point that any of us are here talking about anything? > If one is not a user, and considers something else to be better, why voice such a strong opinion? Because people make conversation and have opinions. Are you familiar with socializing? It's okay to not like something. It's okay to not like _parts_ of something.

by bipson 5y ago

dolni 5y ago

> and by god, if a better solution is so obvious to you, why haven't you proposed it yet, or - god forbid - made a merge/pull request?? Because there isn't any obligation to? Why do you think you would be entitled to ask for that?

djbusby 5y ago
Aren't they just suggesting to open a bug/issue in place of complaining on HN? Seems a fair, small ask to me.
- dolni 5y ago
  There is a discussion being had. This guy was sharing his opinion about syncthing. That still doesn't obligate him to open a bug or do any work for the project.
mPReDiToR 5y ago
"Entitled to ask"? I think freedom of speech allows for it. Can I have a million pounds, from you personally, please? Also, that might be the small nudge which potentially has a user actually contribute in some circumstances. I'm not sure your question is fair.
- dolni 5y ago
  Perhaps "entitled to ask" is a poor choice of words. Yes, freedom of speech allows bipson to ask about contributing. It still comes across as entitled. The question was clearly laden with some expectation that Reventlov should go do work for syncthing instead of sharing an opinion on Hacker News. We're just here having a conversation. The expectation that a user MUST do something for an open source project because they have an issue is a tired take. It's not as though Reventlov is blowing up Syncthing's development team with demands about how to make it better. And, for all any of us know, Reventlov may have already submitted PRs or opened issues for Syncthing. Or, it could be the case that there's a different piece of software suiting their needs better, and that's fine. Or, Reventlov maybe just doesn't possess the technical skill to contribute in that way. And that's okay too. Bludgeoning people with an open source virtue-stick for sharing an opinion isn't helpful.
  - bipson 5y ago
    Hmm, fair point. But just as much as you consider an "expectation that a user MUST do something for an open source project" is a tired point, I consider the endless ranting by entitled FOSS users an obnoxious trend. And btw. I never said something about "must", I asked why not choosing - OK, maybe strongly suggesting - another option. Maybe you took my question the wrong way, but (maybe just as much misguided) I took the "opinion"/"discussion" not as opinion, but for the lack of any helpful suggestion as merely a rant. I was raised not to needlessly complain about free things, without considering to take things into my own hands. And even if you don't know how to code, suggestions and discussions are better had in an issue tracker, right? Otherwise, what's the point? If one is not a user, and considers something else to be better, why voice such a strong opinion?
    - dolni 5y ago
      > I consider the endless ranting by entitled FOSS users an obnoxious trend. There is a massive difference between voicing your opinion about something in a public discussion forum and hounding the developers of a project because they don't fix bugs or implement new features on your say-so. One of those is making conversation, the other is entitlement. > Maybe you took my question the wrong way, but (maybe just as much misguided) I took the "opinion"/"discussion" not as opinion, but for the lack of any helpful suggestion as merely a rant. Sometimes, you can recognize that something is bad without knowing the best way to fix it. > I was raised not to needlessly complain about free things, without considering to take things into my own hands. Okay, so that was how you were raised and how you operate. I don't see the reply as needless complaining. It is a critique of some specific issues. It was constructive criticism, because it presented a specific set of things that could be improved upon. I happen to agree with those criticisms, even though I generally think Syncthing is a great piece of software. > And even if you don't know how to code, suggestions and discussions are better had in an issue tracker, right? Otherwise, what's the point? What's the point that any of us are here talking about anything? > If one is not a user, and considers something else to be better, why voice such a strong opinion? Because people make conversation and have opinions. Are you familiar with socializing? It's okay to not like something. It's okay to not like _parts_ of something.