4 ms·

Coherency, security, stability, ZFS... Perfect on a server (e.g. a VPS), may not be as good as a desktop or as something to run on a laptop (depending on hardwa

Coherency, security, stability, ZFS... Perfect on a server (e.g. a VPS), may not be as good as a desktop or as something to run on a laptop (depending on hardware).

pastrami_panda 5y ago
> Coherency What does this refer to in this context?
- tbrock 5y ago
  Things are where you’d expect, patterns and conventions cary on throughout the system, etc… Vs the disjoint feeling linux has.
  - JoshTriplett 5y ago
    Part of the job of a Linux distribution is to provide policy, conventions, and similar consistency. If you install everything from sources directly, or directly from upstream vendors, you may get inconsistencies, but if you install everything from your Linux distribution, you should get reasonable consistency, just as if you install everything from your BSD distribution.
    - agumonkey 5y ago
      even in a distro, you'll get various syntax variations for instance
      - JoshTriplett 5y ago
        Syntax of what?
        agumonkey 5y ago
        cli programs, they all have different ways to handle arguments, options, help ps: another instance, albeit not a BSD strength either, would be data format, every output is different, I, like a few people too wanted some json as pivot representation to cut the thousands of papercuts, that kind of uniformity is what I expect from "system"
        evh 5y ago
        Lots (just some? most? I haven't really used it much) of FreeBSD system utilities are using libxo for output, so you can use e.g. ps --libxo json and get json output, or xml/html
        agumonkey 5y ago
        I didn't know bsd already adopted it, only heard a few passing mentions. That's great, though, and note that I mostly meant that about linux.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - zokula 5y ago
    I already have that with Linux.
School-Cotton 5y ago
> ZFS NB: Not on OpenBSD.
mrweasel 5y ago
> Coherency, security, stability, ZFS... My only sort of complaint in regards to FreeBSD is actually ZFS. Not that it's not fantastic, or that it shouldn't be there. ZFS does however clearly comes from Solaris, and there have been no effort to make the ZFS command line tools feel more BSD like. Changing the tooling around ZFS probably isn't a great idea, but coherency has clearly taken a backseat to features in this case.
- gtirloni 5y ago
  It's coherent with the other ZFS implementations in Linux and Solaris.
  - nrr 5y ago
    Likewise, apropos storage systems that handle logical volume management, Linux's LVM tools are extremely reminiscent of those from HP-UX[0], and NetBSD's LVM guide explicitly calls out their tooling being built from Linux's lvm2tools[1]. There's a modest amount of precedent for this kind of thing. 0: lvcreate(1M) from HP-UX 11i https://nixdoc.net/man-pages/HP-UX/man1/lvcreate.1m.html https://nixdoc.net/man-pages/HP-UX/man1/lvcreate.1m.html 1: http://www.netbsd.org/docs/guide/en/chap-lvm.html http://www.netbsd.org/docs/guide/en/chap-lvm.html
- MisterTea 5y ago
  > Changing the tooling around ZFS probably isn't a great idea, but coherency has clearly taken a backseat to features in this case. Right, because ZFS is a foreign piece of software that runs on other operating systems. At that point you are better off keeping those tools coherent with other ZFS implementations. This is a good compromise.

Coherency, security, stability, ZFS... Perfect on a server (e.g. a VPS), may not be as good as a desktop or as something to run on a laptop (depending on hardware).

pastrami_panda 5y ago

> Coherency What does this refer to in this context?

tbrock 5y ago
Things are where you’d expect, patterns and conventions cary on throughout the system, etc… Vs the disjoint feeling linux has.
- JoshTriplett 5y ago
  Part of the job of a Linux distribution is to provide policy, conventions, and similar consistency. If you install everything from sources directly, or directly from upstream vendors, you may get inconsistencies, but if you install everything from your Linux distribution, you should get reasonable consistency, just as if you install everything from your BSD distribution.
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    even in a distro, you'll get various syntax variations for instance
    - JoshTriplett 5y ago
      Syntax of what?
      - agumonkey 5y ago
        cli programs, they all have different ways to handle arguments, options, help ps: another instance, albeit not a BSD strength either, would be data format, every output is different, I, like a few people too wanted some json as pivot representation to cut the thousands of papercuts, that kind of uniformity is what I expect from "system"
        evh 5y ago
        Lots (just some? most? I haven't really used it much) of FreeBSD system utilities are using libxo for output, so you can use e.g. ps --libxo json and get json output, or xml/html
        agumonkey 5y ago
        I didn't know bsd already adopted it, only heard a few passing mentions. That's great, though, and note that I mostly meant that about linux.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- zokula 5y ago
  I already have that with Linux.

School-Cotton 5y ago

> ZFS NB: Not on OpenBSD.

mrweasel 5y ago

> Coherency, security, stability, ZFS... My only sort of complaint in regards to FreeBSD is actually ZFS. Not that it's not fantastic, or that it shouldn't be there. ZFS does however clearly comes from Solaris, and there have been no effort to make the ZFS command line tools feel more BSD like. Changing the tooling around ZFS probably isn't a great idea, but coherency has clearly taken a backseat to features in this case.

gtirloni 5y ago
It's coherent with the other ZFS implementations in Linux and Solaris.
- nrr 5y ago
  Likewise, apropos storage systems that handle logical volume management, Linux's LVM tools are extremely reminiscent of those from HP-UX[0], and NetBSD's LVM guide explicitly calls out their tooling being built from Linux's lvm2tools[1]. There's a modest amount of precedent for this kind of thing. 0: lvcreate(1M) from HP-UX 11i https://nixdoc.net/man-pages/HP-UX/man1/lvcreate.1m.html https://nixdoc.net/man-pages/HP-UX/man1/lvcreate.1m.html 1: http://www.netbsd.org/docs/guide/en/chap-lvm.html http://www.netbsd.org/docs/guide/en/chap-lvm.html
MisterTea 5y ago
> Changing the tooling around ZFS probably isn't a great idea, but coherency has clearly taken a backseat to features in this case. Right, because ZFS is a foreign piece of software that runs on other operating systems. At that point you are better off keeping those tools coherent with other ZFS implementations. This is a good compromise.