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"Freedom is the reason the UK has had such a long an illustrious history." I'm sure the inhabitants of the many countries the British invaded and continue to h
by basisword 5y ago
"Freedom is the reason the UK has had such a long an illustrious history."
I'm sure the inhabitants of the many countries the British invaded and continue to hang on to would disagree.
The Online Safety Bill he mentions in his outrage at YouTube taking down his speech is itself an attack on freedoms.
He's also part of a political party working to criminalise protests they disagree with.
- PontifexMinimus 5y ago> British invaded and continue to hang on to The only places I can think of that Britain currently "hangs on to" against the will of the inhabitants are arguably Scotland and Northern Ireland, but in both those places about half the population want to continue to belong to the UK. So it's not obvious to me who you're referring to here.
- basisword 5y agoBadly phrased. I meant inhabitants of all current and ex-colonies. Not just the remaining ones. Although, the talk of blocking another Scottish independence referendum could certainly be used as evidence of holding on to a country against the inhabitants will. You can't know their will if you prevent them from expressing it. Yes, they expressed it 7 years ago but a lot has changed since then, most notably leaving the EU.
- TrispusAttucks 5y agoRegarding ex-colonies: Don't we have to eventually "let bygones be bygones"? Otherwise, where do we draw the line? How far do we go back? Those original human perpetrators are long dead. "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin." ~ Deuteronomy 24:16
- basisword 5y agoI'm not arguing that, it's a bigger debate. But claiming that the UK exists as it does because of a long commitment to freedom (when the colonies are a big example of the antithesis of freedom) is dishonest.
- TrispusAttucks 5y agoPerhaps, but there is some [1] history to suggest that the case could be made that the UK does have a long history of commitment to freedom. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28866094 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28866094
- boffinism 5y ago"The Lord is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation." ~ Numbers 14:18
- TrispusAttucks 5y agoYes. ;) A phrase for ever situation. So versatile.
- sudosysgen 5y agoIf by letting bygones be bygones you mean accepting people brazenly lying about their history, then no.
- TrispusAttucks 5y agoWhat span of time must pass before achievements are permitted to no longer be stained by transgressions of the past? It is either: A. Never B. Sometime If you feel it's A then there's nothing to debate. If you feel it's B then let's haggle over the definition of sometime? It appears my definition is that that "sometime" is now. Your definition is sometime in the future.
- Stevvo 5y agoThe Chagos Islands would meet that definition if there were any residents left; they were all forcibly removed, but campaign to return. Ostensibly they are forbidden from returning because the islands are a nature reserve, but it came out in leaked cables the nature reserve's raison d'etre is keeping out the Chagos Islanders. Conservation is only a side-effect.
- jikbd 5y ago> I'm sure the inhabitants of the many countries the British invaded and continue to hang on to would disagree. The political systems of every one of those countries are freer today than they were before the British “visited”.
- zpeti 5y agoBased on many HN comments about Modi and his anti democracy moves, I'm not quite sure India agrees.
- sudosysgen 5y agoOnly because those countries rebelled against the British.
- bserge 5y agoTbf, commoners in Britain didn't fare much better.
- carnitine 5y agoThey definitely did. Chattel slavery for example was never legal in the British isles, but was permitted in the colonies.
- falkrr 5y agoIt does not help if there was no legislation but 10% of the (white) population were slaves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Britain#Norman_England https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Britain#Norman_Engl... I'm also not sure if being a white coal miner in 1870 in Britain would have been much better than the jobs in the colonies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mold,_Flintshire#The_Mold_Riot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mold,_Flintshire#The_Mold_Riot
- wizard-beta 5y ago>I'm sure the inhabitants of the many countries the British invaded and continue to hang on to would disagree. Propose one colony where the indigenous society was freer
- mathw 5y agoIndia
- wizard-beta 5y agoLegalized caste system
- Iolaum 5y agoNative American populations.
- crateless 5y ago> Propose one colony where the indigenous society was freer So the assertion is that being colonised increased their freedom?
- wizard-beta 5y agoYes, considerably.
- crateless 5y agoArguing that labour camps, apartheid, the raping both literal and figurative as well as outright genocide that occurred were justified because people today are "freer" (IYO) is a stretch. I don't know man, but arguing for a process that discriminated against people on the basis of their color is something that I thought was a thing of the past. I guess I was wrong.
- basisword 5y agoIt's impossible to know. You would need to be able to predict how that country would have evolved over the last number of years without British involvement. Comparing it now to how it was when it was colonised by the British is pointless.
- postingawayonhn 5y agoThe US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, India, etc. are all democracies where the UK had a big influence on their culture.