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> "Govnt must stop the erosion of free speech online. That starts with looking again at the wholly inadequate proposals in the Online Safety Bill” why don't th

> "Govnt must stop the erosion of free speech online. That starts with looking again at the wholly inadequate proposals in the Online Safety Bill” why don't they (govt) open a public video site for anyone to upload to, so they don't have to mess with private sites? forcing private entities to host things they dont want to sounds like a huge can of worms

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ben_w 5y ago
This particular government is very fond of opening cans of worms, but is always surprised and upset to find worms inside them.
PontifexMinimus 5y ago
It would make a lot of sense for the UK government to encourage UK-based PeerTube websites (and other federated social media such as Mastodon, PixelFed, Lemmy, etc), and to make sure all UK government content is uploaded on such sites. Then once they have done that, and these sites have lots of users and traction, mandate that Google, Facebook etc also federate using ActivityPub. If they don't, block their sites.
- my123 5y ago
  PeerTube doesn't scale when most of the user base nowadays is on mobile, with asymmetric connections that have data caps. (which happens to be the real world)
  - PontifexMinimus 5y ago
    > most of the user base nowadays is on mobile I've never actually watched a video on a mobile device (I tried once and didn't have enough bandwidth). If I'm at home or office, I have a desktop PC, and if I'm out and about I have better things to be doing with my time.
  - funshed 5y ago
    UK Mobile Data for most is unlimited. A few will have a data cap but those will be unlikely to watch videos on mobile.
    - reallydontask 5y ago
      >UK Mobile Data for most is unlimited I very much doubt this is the case given the number of tariffs with data caps
    - loriverkutya 5y ago
      I just asked around (~100 people) and nobody I know has unlimited mobile data here in the UK. As you can get 120gb/month for £20 and unlimited for £40 on a 12 month sim only contract, I think not many people using more than 120GB/month so no good reason to pay double for it. As anecdata, I cut my package back to 5GB at the start of the first lockdown as my mobil data usage went to nearly 0 since wifi at home and did not run out of data during the last year. I assume anybody who was able to do that done the same.
    - xenocratus 5y ago
      https://www.finder.com/uk/mobile-internet-statistics https://www.finder.com/uk/mobile-internet-statistics https://www.statista.com/forecasts/997904/mobile-data-plan-in-the-uk https://www.statista.com/forecasts/997904/mobile-data-plan-i... If "for most is unlimited" you mean "most don't use up all their data", then yes. If you mean "most have unlimited data plans", then see links above. EDIT: apologies for the statista link, it wasn't paywalling me when I first looked: it shows about 12% have unlimited data.
  - chhs 5y ago
    PeerTube doesn't scale with large number of users, period. There's currently no way to horizontally scale an instance, so after an instance grows past a certain size it can't transcode uploaded videos fast enough. I love the project but if it can't utilize multiple compute instances to transcode video (or plug into a cloud platforms video transcoding offering), it's never going to grow past this blocker.
    - cute_boi 5y ago
      I suffered this problem 1 year ago and after raising issue in github I realized peertube wasn't designed from ground to be scaled horizontally. Not only upload video but harddisk is my concern like distributed storage is an after thought. However I also acknowledge the authors are very open to ideas and they are really awesome. I guess some wizards who knows scaling related things need to be hired and it will costs a lot of money. AFAIK peertube generates money from donation so I don't think we should be harsh on them.
    - PontifexMinimus 5y ago
      > There's currently no way to horizontally scale an instance, so after an instance grows past a certain size it can't transcode uploaded videos fast enough. I wasn't aware of that -- fixing it would be a very necessary improvement to the codebase to make the software more useful on big sites.
- newswasboring 5y ago
  Why not just make them implement ActivityPub now? It will promote adversarial interoperability and give rise to more competition.
  - PontifexMinimus 5y ago
    Now or later -- either works for me!
- nathias 5y ago
  The youtube alternatives are becoming useful, I can watch most of the content I would otherwise watch on youtube on odysee, it even has a much better UX.
- ColinHayhurst 5y ago
  Th UK government is more interested in encouraging "safety tech" including age verification tech. There is no programme, fund, encouragement or anything of support for anyone doing something like a UK-based PeerTube. In their eyes this is not "innovation". I am very happy to stand corrected but speak from 30 years of mixed experiences.
VBprogrammer 5y ago
I haven't checked but wasn't the Online safety bill the one which implied all kinds of age verification checks which either weren't feasible or, at a minimum, were a goldmine for identify fraud.
- ColinHayhurst 5y ago
  Many people watching this Bill take the view is that it is being used to slip back in age verification, as it attempted to do so, but failed in the Digital Economy Act 2017. In that Act, Part 3 was about a porn sites requiring an age verification proposal; not just declaring you age in some form but linking to some official data from which your age could be verified (like a credit card number). This section got dropped from the Act before it was passed and has led to a course case between the Govt and age verification companies. Now it looks like the Online Safety Bill is being used to repeal the Digital Economy Act 2017 and replace it with this new Act where the age verification requirement is slipped back in. The Age Verification industry is lobbying hard to see their "investments" pay off this time, after being disappointed in 2017.
jasode 5y ago
>why don't they (govt) open a public video site for anyone to upload to, If governments tried to create publicly funded video website for anyone to upload to, it still won't accomplish what we'd hope for because governments always exercise their power censor. (See examples of UK BBC censorship.[1]) Look at the cognitive dissonance in the platitude: "Govnt must stop the erosion of free speech online." The government-that-censors wants to force private businesses to not-censor?!? Inevitably, the government will force the business to censor something the government doesn't like which creates a contradiction! [To downvoters: Does a government funded website that has uncensored "free speech" exist now? If not, why would it be realistic that it won't suffer the same pressures to censor that all previous government-controlled communication channels had? Let's not repeat platitudes about "free speech" but really dissect the mechanisms to enable censorship-resistant mass media. The mechanisms of implementation are the more difficult topic!] EDIT reply to : >"I think op meant, that te government should make video.gov.tld webpage to post government videos there" But the gp's phrase of "for _anyone_ to upload to" strongly implies user-generated content like Youtube uploaders instead of only the government employees uploading government videos. Does the UK's BBC count as a government-sponsored website? They already have examples of hosting videos of parliament speeches. E.g. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-58259509 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-58259509 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Kingdom#Radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Kingd...
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  I think op meant, that the government should make video.gov.tld webpage to post government videos there, instead of posting them to youtube.
CTDOCodebases 5y ago
This is a good point. They could optimise the site to encourage more uploads instead of engagement. Then the government can mine the data for intelligence. Turn spying on its citizens and data harvesting of their public info into a useful resource for the benefit of all.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ben_w 5y ago

This particular government is very fond of opening cans of worms, but is always surprised and upset to find worms inside them.

PontifexMinimus 5y ago

It would make a lot of sense for the UK government to encourage UK-based PeerTube websites (and other federated social media such as Mastodon, PixelFed, Lemmy, etc), and to make sure all UK government content is uploaded on such sites. Then once they have done that, and these sites have lots of users and traction, mandate that Google, Facebook etc also federate using ActivityPub. If they don't, block their sites.

my123 5y ago
PeerTube doesn't scale when most of the user base nowadays is on mobile, with asymmetric connections that have data caps. (which happens to be the real world)
- PontifexMinimus 5y ago
  > most of the user base nowadays is on mobile I've never actually watched a video on a mobile device (I tried once and didn't have enough bandwidth). If I'm at home or office, I have a desktop PC, and if I'm out and about I have better things to be doing with my time.
- funshed 5y ago
  UK Mobile Data for most is unlimited. A few will have a data cap but those will be unlikely to watch videos on mobile.
  - reallydontask 5y ago
    >UK Mobile Data for most is unlimited I very much doubt this is the case given the number of tariffs with data caps
  - loriverkutya 5y ago
    I just asked around (~100 people) and nobody I know has unlimited mobile data here in the UK. As you can get 120gb/month for £20 and unlimited for £40 on a 12 month sim only contract, I think not many people using more than 120GB/month so no good reason to pay double for it. As anecdata, I cut my package back to 5GB at the start of the first lockdown as my mobil data usage went to nearly 0 since wifi at home and did not run out of data during the last year. I assume anybody who was able to do that done the same.
  - xenocratus 5y ago
    https://www.finder.com/uk/mobile-internet-statistics https://www.finder.com/uk/mobile-internet-statistics https://www.statista.com/forecasts/997904/mobile-data-plan-in-the-uk https://www.statista.com/forecasts/997904/mobile-data-plan-i... If "for most is unlimited" you mean "most don't use up all their data", then yes. If you mean "most have unlimited data plans", then see links above. EDIT: apologies for the statista link, it wasn't paywalling me when I first looked: it shows about 12% have unlimited data.
- chhs 5y ago
  PeerTube doesn't scale with large number of users, period. There's currently no way to horizontally scale an instance, so after an instance grows past a certain size it can't transcode uploaded videos fast enough. I love the project but if it can't utilize multiple compute instances to transcode video (or plug into a cloud platforms video transcoding offering), it's never going to grow past this blocker.
  - cute_boi 5y ago
    I suffered this problem 1 year ago and after raising issue in github I realized peertube wasn't designed from ground to be scaled horizontally. Not only upload video but harddisk is my concern like distributed storage is an after thought. However I also acknowledge the authors are very open to ideas and they are really awesome. I guess some wizards who knows scaling related things need to be hired and it will costs a lot of money. AFAIK peertube generates money from donation so I don't think we should be harsh on them.
  - PontifexMinimus 5y ago
    > There's currently no way to horizontally scale an instance, so after an instance grows past a certain size it can't transcode uploaded videos fast enough. I wasn't aware of that -- fixing it would be a very necessary improvement to the codebase to make the software more useful on big sites.
newswasboring 5y ago
Why not just make them implement ActivityPub now? It will promote adversarial interoperability and give rise to more competition.
- PontifexMinimus 5y ago
  Now or later -- either works for me!
nathias 5y ago
The youtube alternatives are becoming useful, I can watch most of the content I would otherwise watch on youtube on odysee, it even has a much better UX.
ColinHayhurst 5y ago
Th UK government is more interested in encouraging "safety tech" including age verification tech. There is no programme, fund, encouragement or anything of support for anyone doing something like a UK-based PeerTube. In their eyes this is not "innovation". I am very happy to stand corrected but speak from 30 years of mixed experiences.

VBprogrammer 5y ago

I haven't checked but wasn't the Online safety bill the one which implied all kinds of age verification checks which either weren't feasible or, at a minimum, were a goldmine for identify fraud.

ColinHayhurst 5y ago
Many people watching this Bill take the view is that it is being used to slip back in age verification, as it attempted to do so, but failed in the Digital Economy Act 2017. In that Act, Part 3 was about a porn sites requiring an age verification proposal; not just declaring you age in some form but linking to some official data from which your age could be verified (like a credit card number). This section got dropped from the Act before it was passed and has led to a course case between the Govt and age verification companies. Now it looks like the Online Safety Bill is being used to repeal the Digital Economy Act 2017 and replace it with this new Act where the age verification requirement is slipped back in. The Age Verification industry is lobbying hard to see their "investments" pay off this time, after being disappointed in 2017.

jasode 5y ago

>why don't they (govt) open a public video site for anyone to upload to, If governments tried to create publicly funded video website for anyone to upload to, it still won't accomplish what we'd hope for because governments always exercise their power censor. (See examples of UK BBC censorship.[1]) Look at the cognitive dissonance in the platitude: "Govnt must stop the erosion of free speech online." The government-that-censors wants to force private businesses to not-censor?!? Inevitably, the government will force the business to censor something the government doesn't like which creates a contradiction! [To downvoters: Does a government funded website that has uncensored "free speech" exist now? If not, why would it be realistic that it won't suffer the same pressures to censor that all previous government-controlled communication channels had? Let's not repeat platitudes about "free speech" but really dissect the mechanisms to enable censorship-resistant mass media. The mechanisms of implementation are the more difficult topic!] EDIT reply to : >"I think op meant, that te government should make video.gov.tld webpage to post government videos there" But the gp's phrase of "for _anyone_ to upload to" strongly implies user-generated content like Youtube uploaders instead of only the government employees uploading government videos. Does the UK's BBC count as a government-sponsored website? They already have examples of hosting videos of parliament speeches. E.g. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-58259509 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-58259509 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Kingdom#Radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Kingd...

ajsnigrutin 5y ago
I think op meant, that the government should make video.gov.tld webpage to post government videos there, instead of posting them to youtube.

CTDOCodebases 5y ago

This is a good point. They could optimise the site to encourage more uploads instead of engagement. Then the government can mine the data for intelligence. Turn spying on its citizens and data harvesting of their public info into a useful resource for the benefit of all.