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YouTube censors David Davis MP’s speech against vaccine passports

49 points by zpeti 5y ago

bananapub 5y ago
A general question: What content should large companies be allowed to decline to host?
schleck8 5y ago
There is a joke here somewhere. Vouching against government regulation and for liberalism, gets his speech deleted. Does liberalism not apply to Youtube?
timonoko 5y ago
"UK hospital data shocks the world: 80% of COVID deaths are among the vaccinated… COVID deaths up 3,000% after vaccine wave."
- wesleywt 5y ago
  Amazing how misinformation like this spread so much quicker than the truth.
- egberts1 5y ago
  among the vaccinated? perhaps it is all about context censorship.
- estebank 5y ago
  The only place I could find that quote is in a less than reputable site: https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-09-28-covid-deaths-in-vaccinated-3000-higher.html https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-09-28-covid-deaths-in-vacci... Meanwhile, in the BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58545548 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58545548: > Of the 51,281 deaths involving Covid registered in England between 2 January and 2 July 2021: > - 640 (1.2%) were people who had received both vaccine doses > This total includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated > - Some 458 deaths (0.8%) were people who died at least 21 days after their second dose > Just 256 deaths (0.5%) were people who were both fully vaccinated and who had their first positive PCR test at least 14 days after their second dose > Some deaths after vaccination were always expected because vaccines are not 100% effective, and it takes a couple of weeks after your second dose to build the fullest protection. > The figures show the high degree of protection from the vaccines against illness and death, the ONS said.
  - schleck8 5y ago
    Natural News is a known pseudoscientific website https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/natural-news/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/natural-news/
  - makomk 5y ago
    Yikes - the time period the BBC and ONS have chosen for those statistics is close to maximally misleading. It includes most of the 2020/2021 winter wave of cases and deaths which ended before the UK had widespread vaccination whilst almost entirely excluding the summer 2021 wave which happened after most of the adult population was vaccinated. Of course most deaths are going to be amongst people who weren't vaccinated if you only count the ones before vaccination was widespread. To give some context for how bad setting the time period to be from the start of January to the start of July is, the winter wave peaked in cases at the start of January and deaths mid-January, and by the end of the month less than 1% of UK adults had recieved both vaccine doses - and remember, the stats in that article are for both doses only. The next big wave saw deaths start to increase around the start of July, by which point three-quarters of adults had both doses; those deaths aren't counted at all.
    - pzo 5y ago
      I don't know what's misleading for you. Even if the stats of death was taken until today (october) it wouldn't make any difference. Have a look at deaths chart: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ In january daily deaths peaked at ~1800 and in looks like summer wave peaked at ~190 in september. Also in january daily detected infection peaked at ~67k then in july peaked at ~54k and currently is at around ~43k. So even if detected daily number of cases was not much lower than in january comparing to june that's ~10x reduction of deaths. It's hard to argue that at least there is correlation that increased number of vaccines among population reduced deaths. So even if vaccines maybe won't prevent you from catching the virus it reduces risk of death at least 10x fold. That's enough good benefit for me to get vaccinated.
- ben_w 5y ago
  As the entirety of your comment as a quote, I don’t know if you’re giving an example of David Davis saying something misleading, or if you’re trying to signal boost his claims. But that quote is misleading: https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/09/fact-check-claim-that-80-percent-of-covid-19-deaths-occurred-within-the-vaccinated-population-in-scotland-is-misleading.html https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/09/fact-check-claim-... (Think of it this way: if 100% of people are vaccinated, then 100% of deaths will be vaccinated people. This is true for literally every possible vaccine and disease and cause of death, not just COVID. It’s also true for “people who drink water”. It only pattern matches the conveyance of useful information, but by itself it is half a statement and says nothing).
  - estebank 5y ago
    This is an example of the base rate fallacy[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy
    - makomk 5y ago
      The trouble is, it's not actually a fallacy when we're talking about the benefits of forcing the remaining people to get vaccinated. The main supposed justification for forcing people to get vaccinated right now is that it'll prevent the hospital system from becoming overwhelmed by stopping them being hospitalized, and this is why they're supposedly harming others by refusing to be vaccinated. Obviously this doesn't work at all once the vast majority of people who're hospitalized due to Covid-19 are vaccinated. (The other misleading trick is to do stuff like quoting figures starting in January. What matters is the hospitalization rate right now, which is very different - less than 1% of people in the UK were fully vaccinated back in January and it's a similar story in other countries.)
      - finite_jest 5y ago
        That's an interesting point, although for that we should be using hospitalization numbers instead of deaths. I think you would agree that if the rest of the population got vaccinated, the load on the hospitals would probably decrease by some amount. Knowing how much merit the argument of the hospitals being overwhelmed has requires some careful analysis based on the actual numbers. Sadly, that seems to be too much of an expectation from the people who call themselves journalists (and fact-checkers seem to only do marginally better).
- timonoko 5y ago
  I was just Duckduckgoing this issue and found this popular title quite amusing. In Finland they are issuing passports against 17% population. Most of which have medical excuse.
- InsomniacL 5y ago
  ~"95% of car crash deaths are those wearing a seatbelt" Does that mean seatbelts are harmful? no. Almost everyone wears a seatbelt, so the overall deaths are much lower than if everyone didn't wear a seatbelt. P.S I couldn't be bothered looking the actual number up because the vaccine claim is ridiculous.
TBastiani 5y ago
This video is still up. I'm not sure if I'm looking at the wrong video, if it was never taken down or if YouTube have changed their decision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VidUXZjzNVk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VidUXZjzNVk
- pixxel 5y ago
  It was reinstated after pressure on Twitter.
  - InsomniacL 5y ago
    Can you provide a source to that claim? I'm interested to know if it was pressure on Twitter or or if the uploader followed a Youtube appeal process which was successful. 500 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute worldwide, algorithms are the only way to practically 'police' harmful content on this scale, but so long as there is a meaningful appeals process, i don't see an issue?
fabiofzero 5y ago
I don't know why I still waste time looking at HackerNews only to find TechDudeBros siding with anitvaxxers and denialists. Grow up.
- tuesdayrain 5y ago
  I've taken all my other vaccines. But because I don't want to take one vaccine with unknown long term side effects for a disease that I've already had, I'm suddenly an antivaxxer? I disagree.

49 points by zpeti 5y ago

A general question: What content should large companies be allowed to decline to host?

There is a joke here somewhere. Vouching against government regulation and for liberalism, gets his speech deleted. Does liberalism not apply to Youtube?

timonoko 5y ago

"UK hospital data shocks the world: 80% of COVID deaths are among the vaccinated… COVID deaths up 3,000% after vaccine wave."

wesleywt 5y ago
Amazing how misinformation like this spread so much quicker than the truth.
egberts1 5y ago
among the vaccinated? perhaps it is all about context censorship.
estebank 5y ago
The only place I could find that quote is in a less than reputable site: https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-09-28-covid-deaths-in-vaccinated-3000-higher.html https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-09-28-covid-deaths-in-vacci... Meanwhile, in the BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58545548 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58545548: > Of the 51,281 deaths involving Covid registered in England between 2 January and 2 July 2021: > - 640 (1.2%) were people who had received both vaccine doses > This total includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated > - Some 458 deaths (0.8%) were people who died at least 21 days after their second dose > Just 256 deaths (0.5%) were people who were both fully vaccinated and who had their first positive PCR test at least 14 days after their second dose > Some deaths after vaccination were always expected because vaccines are not 100% effective, and it takes a couple of weeks after your second dose to build the fullest protection. > The figures show the high degree of protection from the vaccines against illness and death, the ONS said.
- schleck8 5y ago
  Natural News is a known pseudoscientific website https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/natural-news/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/natural-news/
- makomk 5y ago
  Yikes - the time period the BBC and ONS have chosen for those statistics is close to maximally misleading. It includes most of the 2020/2021 winter wave of cases and deaths which ended before the UK had widespread vaccination whilst almost entirely excluding the summer 2021 wave which happened after most of the adult population was vaccinated. Of course most deaths are going to be amongst people who weren't vaccinated if you only count the ones before vaccination was widespread. To give some context for how bad setting the time period to be from the start of January to the start of July is, the winter wave peaked in cases at the start of January and deaths mid-January, and by the end of the month less than 1% of UK adults had recieved both vaccine doses - and remember, the stats in that article are for both doses only. The next big wave saw deaths start to increase around the start of July, by which point three-quarters of adults had both doses; those deaths aren't counted at all.
  - pzo 5y ago
    I don't know what's misleading for you. Even if the stats of death was taken until today (october) it wouldn't make any difference. Have a look at deaths chart: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ In january daily deaths peaked at ~1800 and in looks like summer wave peaked at ~190 in september. Also in january daily detected infection peaked at ~67k then in july peaked at ~54k and currently is at around ~43k. So even if detected daily number of cases was not much lower than in january comparing to june that's ~10x reduction of deaths. It's hard to argue that at least there is correlation that increased number of vaccines among population reduced deaths. So even if vaccines maybe won't prevent you from catching the virus it reduces risk of death at least 10x fold. That's enough good benefit for me to get vaccinated.
ben_w 5y ago
As the entirety of your comment as a quote, I don’t know if you’re giving an example of David Davis saying something misleading, or if you’re trying to signal boost his claims. But that quote is misleading: https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/09/fact-check-claim-that-80-percent-of-covid-19-deaths-occurred-within-the-vaccinated-population-in-scotland-is-misleading.html https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/09/fact-check-claim-... (Think of it this way: if 100% of people are vaccinated, then 100% of deaths will be vaccinated people. This is true for literally every possible vaccine and disease and cause of death, not just COVID. It’s also true for “people who drink water”. It only pattern matches the conveyance of useful information, but by itself it is half a statement and says nothing).
- estebank 5y ago
  This is an example of the base rate fallacy[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy
  - makomk 5y ago
    The trouble is, it's not actually a fallacy when we're talking about the benefits of forcing the remaining people to get vaccinated. The main supposed justification for forcing people to get vaccinated right now is that it'll prevent the hospital system from becoming overwhelmed by stopping them being hospitalized, and this is why they're supposedly harming others by refusing to be vaccinated. Obviously this doesn't work at all once the vast majority of people who're hospitalized due to Covid-19 are vaccinated. (The other misleading trick is to do stuff like quoting figures starting in January. What matters is the hospitalization rate right now, which is very different - less than 1% of people in the UK were fully vaccinated back in January and it's a similar story in other countries.)
    - finite_jest 5y ago
      That's an interesting point, although for that we should be using hospitalization numbers instead of deaths. I think you would agree that if the rest of the population got vaccinated, the load on the hospitals would probably decrease by some amount. Knowing how much merit the argument of the hospitals being overwhelmed has requires some careful analysis based on the actual numbers. Sadly, that seems to be too much of an expectation from the people who call themselves journalists (and fact-checkers seem to only do marginally better).
timonoko 5y ago
I was just Duckduckgoing this issue and found this popular title quite amusing. In Finland they are issuing passports against 17% population. Most of which have medical excuse.
InsomniacL 5y ago
~"95% of car crash deaths are those wearing a seatbelt" Does that mean seatbelts are harmful? no. Almost everyone wears a seatbelt, so the overall deaths are much lower than if everyone didn't wear a seatbelt. P.S I couldn't be bothered looking the actual number up because the vaccine claim is ridiculous.

TBastiani 5y ago

This video is still up. I'm not sure if I'm looking at the wrong video, if it was never taken down or if YouTube have changed their decision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VidUXZjzNVk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VidUXZjzNVk

pixxel 5y ago
It was reinstated after pressure on Twitter.
- InsomniacL 5y ago
  Can you provide a source to that claim? I'm interested to know if it was pressure on Twitter or or if the uploader followed a Youtube appeal process which was successful. 500 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute worldwide, algorithms are the only way to practically 'police' harmful content on this scale, but so long as there is a meaningful appeals process, i don't see an issue?

fabiofzero 5y ago

I don't know why I still waste time looking at HackerNews only to find TechDudeBros siding with anitvaxxers and denialists. Grow up.

tuesdayrain 5y ago
I've taken all my other vaccines. But because I don't want to take one vaccine with unknown long term side effects for a disease that I've already had, I'm suddenly an antivaxxer? I disagree.