4 ms·

First, allow me to say that just because something is a theory, conspiracy, or both, does not automatically make it untrue no matter how much that word associat

First, allow me to say that just because something is a theory, conspiracy, or both, does not automatically make it untrue no matter how much that word association may have been tarnished. Being distrusting is a basic human condition honed by evolution. Only short lived and lucky people trusted lions not to eat them. Naturally, some individuals believe every single theory put forward, which is an issue, but it does not mean it is not valid to ask a simple question along the lines of: "If it was the weather, why is only SW affected?"

ceejayoz 5y ago
"If it was the weather, why is only SW affected?" Same question, but for vaccines. United, Delta, American, Alaska all instituted the same mandate. (The answer you seek is in the linked article, which literally has a section starting with the quote "The common question, then, is why Southwest was affected so much worse than other carriers.")
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  Based on the actual quote from the article: “The big issue is that Florida is roughly 15% of our trips, but on any given day, upwards of 50% of our aircraft lines flow through Florida,” Jordan told TPG. “You’ve got all those lines that just stopped in Florida, so you’ve got a lot of aircraft caught up in that,” he said. Are you telling me that SW is so unique that it is the only airline with so much flow in Florida? I genuinely don't know. Do you happen to know?
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    It's a couple lines down. Read the whole thing. > Jordan said it was particularly the line-flow system that Southwest uses as part of a point-to-point network that made it harder for Southwest to recover than other airlines with heavy exposure in Florida, such as American, which has a hub in Miami as part of its hub-and-spoke network. Southwest is unusual in having this "line-flow" system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-point_transit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-point_transit
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
      I am learning a lot today, so I feel I should thank you. The link you provided lists Allegiant Air as one of the other airlines that flies to/from FL ( and uses the same system ), but there is no report same issues as SW has/had. For the record, I don't really care one way or another, but I am not that big on taking executives word at face value; even outgoing ones.
      - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
        Geez, rather than concluding "Allegiant uses the same system, they have no problems, therefore the SW CEO must be lying" (a conclusion that probably pleases you because that's another win for your pet theory that CEOs can't be trusted), why not do your own investigation as to why Allegiant might have escaped this problem? A good scientist tries to disprove her own theories to make sure it's robust. I saw several of your replies scrolling through this page, yeah, you need to learn a lot.
        A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
        I am first to admit that there are a lot of things I simply do not know, but because of this I am also willing to accept evidence presented once presented. Am I wrong to ask why two seemingly similar systemsrespond differently to an event that seemingly should affect them the same way? I do not think so. If the approach is wrong, then tell me that. I am not a scientist. I am just a guy on the interwebs, who sees flimsy excuse for an excuse and calls it out.
        OldHand2018 5y ago
        Southwest had the most cancelled flights, Allegiant had the second most, and Spirit had the third most. I googled “Allegiant cancelled flights” and got dozens of news stories. The FAA problem was in Jacksonville. Wikipedia lists Allegiant’s top Florida destinations as Orlando, St Pete, and Ft Myers. Also, according to Wikipedia, Jacksonville is a minor city for Allegiant.
        5y ago
  - addicted 5y ago
    You're literally asking "Is geography so unique that only planes in a certain geography fly a large number of planes in a certain state".
- iammisc 5y ago
  I mean the answer is easy here. Weather affects all airlines equally. The possibility of a sick out only affects those airlines whose pilots were able to organize. The claim it's the weather is the one that needs extraordinary evidence because the claim is that weather that day only affected Southwest, whereas the claim Southwest pilots were the only ones to organize makes more sense. The Florida explanation doesn't make sense because my parents also had issues going from CA to Oregon. Occam's razor
  - p_l 5y ago
    Occam's Razor doesn't obviate bad priors. In this case a major area with big impact for Southwest got grounded, with knock on effects on flight scheduling as machines and crews couldn't get to next stop in time.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > Weather affects all airlines equally. Nah. Storms are often highly localized, and different airlines have different cities they fly a lot through. A nasty storm cloud over Miami might not interrupt flights over Fort Lauderdale. Weather over Chicago is gonna screw up ops for United. Weather over Atlanta will fuck up Delta. > The Florida explanation doesn't make sense because my parents also had issues going from CA to Oregon. Occam’s razor. Unfortunately, the simplest Occam’s Razor explanation is ignorance here. Here’s an example Southwest flight. Tampa to St. Louis to LAX to San Jose. https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-status/path.html?departureDate=2021-10-13&flightNumber=3027 https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-status/path.html?depart... You might be flying LAX to SJC, but still be affected by planes getting stuck in Florida.
  - addicted 5y ago
    If both management and labor say it's not X, Occam's razor would almost immediately eliminate X. It would probably eliminate X even if one of them said it's not X assuming the other did not say it is.
knownjorbist 5y ago
SW wasn't the only one affected, just the largest by far.
op00to 5y ago
“If it is the weather, why is only SW affected” Look at the airlines operations. SW is different than many of the full price airlines in that they run the leanest of operations almost everywhere. Isolated weather can easily disrupt SW while more capable operations with more robust networks continue just fine.

ceejayoz 5y ago

"If it was the weather, why is only SW affected?" Same question, but for vaccines. United, Delta, American, Alaska all instituted the same mandate. (The answer you seek is in the linked article, which literally has a section starting with the quote "The common question, then, is why Southwest was affected so much worse than other carriers.")

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
Based on the actual quote from the article: “The big issue is that Florida is roughly 15% of our trips, but on any given day, upwards of 50% of our aircraft lines flow through Florida,” Jordan told TPG. “You’ve got all those lines that just stopped in Florida, so you’ve got a lot of aircraft caught up in that,” he said. Are you telling me that SW is so unique that it is the only airline with so much flow in Florida? I genuinely don't know. Do you happen to know?
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  It's a couple lines down. Read the whole thing. > Jordan said it was particularly the line-flow system that Southwest uses as part of a point-to-point network that made it harder for Southwest to recover than other airlines with heavy exposure in Florida, such as American, which has a hub in Miami as part of its hub-and-spoke network. Southwest is unusual in having this "line-flow" system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-point_transit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-point_transit
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
    I am learning a lot today, so I feel I should thank you. The link you provided lists Allegiant Air as one of the other airlines that flies to/from FL ( and uses the same system ), but there is no report same issues as SW has/had. For the record, I don't really care one way or another, but I am not that big on taking executives word at face value; even outgoing ones.
    - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
      Geez, rather than concluding "Allegiant uses the same system, they have no problems, therefore the SW CEO must be lying" (a conclusion that probably pleases you because that's another win for your pet theory that CEOs can't be trusted), why not do your own investigation as to why Allegiant might have escaped this problem? A good scientist tries to disprove her own theories to make sure it's robust. I saw several of your replies scrolling through this page, yeah, you need to learn a lot.
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
        I am first to admit that there are a lot of things I simply do not know, but because of this I am also willing to accept evidence presented once presented. Am I wrong to ask why two seemingly similar systemsrespond differently to an event that seemingly should affect them the same way? I do not think so. If the approach is wrong, then tell me that. I am not a scientist. I am just a guy on the interwebs, who sees flimsy excuse for an excuse and calls it out.
        OldHand2018 5y ago
        Southwest had the most cancelled flights, Allegiant had the second most, and Spirit had the third most. I googled “Allegiant cancelled flights” and got dozens of news stories. The FAA problem was in Jacksonville. Wikipedia lists Allegiant’s top Florida destinations as Orlando, St Pete, and Ft Myers. Also, according to Wikipedia, Jacksonville is a minor city for Allegiant.
        5y ago
- addicted 5y ago
  You're literally asking "Is geography so unique that only planes in a certain geography fly a large number of planes in a certain state".
iammisc 5y ago
I mean the answer is easy here. Weather affects all airlines equally. The possibility of a sick out only affects those airlines whose pilots were able to organize. The claim it's the weather is the one that needs extraordinary evidence because the claim is that weather that day only affected Southwest, whereas the claim Southwest pilots were the only ones to organize makes more sense. The Florida explanation doesn't make sense because my parents also had issues going from CA to Oregon. Occam's razor
- p_l 5y ago
  Occam's Razor doesn't obviate bad priors. In this case a major area with big impact for Southwest got grounded, with knock on effects on flight scheduling as machines and crews couldn't get to next stop in time.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > Weather affects all airlines equally. Nah. Storms are often highly localized, and different airlines have different cities they fly a lot through. A nasty storm cloud over Miami might not interrupt flights over Fort Lauderdale. Weather over Chicago is gonna screw up ops for United. Weather over Atlanta will fuck up Delta. > The Florida explanation doesn't make sense because my parents also had issues going from CA to Oregon. Occam’s razor. Unfortunately, the simplest Occam’s Razor explanation is ignorance here. Here’s an example Southwest flight. Tampa to St. Louis to LAX to San Jose. https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-status/path.html?departureDate=2021-10-13&flightNumber=3027 https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-status/path.html?depart... You might be flying LAX to SJC, but still be affected by planes getting stuck in Florida.
- addicted 5y ago
  If both management and labor say it's not X, Occam's razor would almost immediately eliminate X. It would probably eliminate X even if one of them said it's not X assuming the other did not say it is.

knownjorbist 5y ago

SW wasn't the only one affected, just the largest by far.

op00to 5y ago

“If it is the weather, why is only SW affected” Look at the airlines operations. SW is different than many of the full price airlines in that they run the leanest of operations almost everywhere. Isolated weather can easily disrupt SW while more capable operations with more robust networks continue just fine.