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This post is an excellent reminder that even HN is not immune to rampant conspiracy theorists and to take everything with a grain of salt. HNers are not uniquel

This post is an excellent reminder that even HN is not immune to rampant conspiracy theorists and to take everything with a grain of salt. HNers are not uniquely intelligent nor capable.

TeeMassive 5y ago
Labeling something a "conspiracy theory" is intellectual laziness and not a rebuttal in any shape or form.
- knownjorbist 5y ago
  The problem is that it takes far more effort to dispel and debunk BS than it does to create and spread it in the first place. By the time anyone has the chance to conclusively debunk this tripe, the creators are already miles away on their next grift.
  - seanw444 5y ago
    Well then it's time and effort well-spent. Saying "that's a conspiracy" won't change anybody's mind, and they'll still be on their next grift.
  - TeeMassive 5y ago
    > the creators are already miles away on their next grift That's just a conspiracy theory
hunterb123 5y ago
What are you considering is the conspiracy theory? The walk off happened, just because the CEO says it didn't, doesn't make it so. https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447679841717919744?s=20 https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447679841717919744?...
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  The CEO, the union, the FAA, and the fact that they're getting back to normal all say the walk-off didn't happen. "We didn’t see sick leave beyond normal. In fact, we saw our crews picking up open time to the extent that they could."
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    This is about the pilots, not the union, the FAA, or the CEO. Why hasn't anyone interviewed the pilots? Seems that would clear things up.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      > Why hasn't anyone interviewed the pilots? Seems that would clear things up. I'm not sure why you'd think that. It's likely I can find a doctor to interview who doesn't believe in germ theory; that doesn't tell me how widespread that is. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/sou... > Murray told the Dallas Morning News that the data showed that pilot sick rates during the heavy cancellation days were "exactly in line with where they were all summer with the same kind of operational disasters." Actual data on sick leave seems more useful that an individual anecdote or two.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        I meant the pilots who were there. Should be easy to clear up if the CEO just lets the pilots speak on how happy they are with the jab and how they totally didn't walk out. For some reason we've only seen union leaders, the CEO, and others come out. If they really wanted to dispel things they'd let the pilots speak.
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        > If they really wanted to dispel things they'd let the pilots speak. Perhaps via their official representatives, the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association? How many pilots would you need to see interviewed to determine there wasn't a sick-out? After all, something like 70% of flights went ahead.
A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
First, allow me to say that just because something is a theory, conspiracy, or both, does not automatically make it untrue no matter how much that word association may have been tarnished. Being distrusting is a basic human condition honed by evolution. Only short lived and lucky people trusted lions not to eat them. Naturally, some individuals believe every single theory put forward, which is an issue, but it does not mean it is not valid to ask a simple question along the lines of: "If it was the weather, why is only SW affected?"
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  "If it was the weather, why is only SW affected?" Same question, but for vaccines. United, Delta, American, Alaska all instituted the same mandate. (The answer you seek is in the linked article, which literally has a section starting with the quote "The common question, then, is why Southwest was affected so much worse than other carriers.")
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
    Based on the actual quote from the article: “The big issue is that Florida is roughly 15% of our trips, but on any given day, upwards of 50% of our aircraft lines flow through Florida,” Jordan told TPG. “You’ve got all those lines that just stopped in Florida, so you’ve got a lot of aircraft caught up in that,” he said. Are you telling me that SW is so unique that it is the only airline with so much flow in Florida? I genuinely don't know. Do you happen to know?
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      It's a couple lines down. Read the whole thing. > Jordan said it was particularly the line-flow system that Southwest uses as part of a point-to-point network that made it harder for Southwest to recover than other airlines with heavy exposure in Florida, such as American, which has a hub in Miami as part of its hub-and-spoke network. Southwest is unusual in having this "line-flow" system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-point_transit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-point_transit
temp_praneshp 5y ago
HN has a healthy number of conspiracy theorists and flat out liars. There was a post about Apple keeping the 30% cut on refunded apps last year that is a good example. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23995750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23995750
shadilay 5y ago
HN is getting it wrong because everyone else is. The real story is that pilots unions are never allowed to strike and sick outs are illegal. If the company or union admitted to doing so they would be in breach of the Railway Labor Act. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Mediation_Board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Mediation_Board https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XYpZg0SPCE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XYpZg0SPCE
- knownjorbist 5y ago
  Or... you want the idea of a walkout by pilots over a vaccine mandate to be true, and like most conspiratorial thinkers, to be "in" on this truth, to have seen through the lies that the sheeple cannot. I highly doubt any real number of airline pilots are walking out over a vaccine mandate - because they've probably been vaccinated for months now.
  - shadilay 5y ago
    You accuse me of being a conspiratorial thinker? Please do not resort to ad hominem when I have provided you ample evidence. The NMB wikipedia article describes the process airline pilots unions must follow before being allowed to strike. The legal basis for this is found in the Railway Labor Act. >NMB programs provide an integrated dispute resolution process to meet the statutory objective of minimizing strikes and other work stoppages in the airline and railroad industries. A few key points from the video: The last time a major airline was allowed by the NMB to strike it lasted for 24 minutes before they were ordered back to work by President Clinton. It is the NMB's mission statement to prevent strikes and labor disruption in the airline and rail industries. Job actions (including sick outs) are not allowed. When Pilots did a slow down by following FAA regulations precisely a Judge stopped them. I am not a Southwest employee so I cannot tell you how many pilots walked out. What I can say however is that if the union claimed to be involved with job actions that would be an admission of a crime.
    - seanw444 5y ago
      That sounds freakishly authoritarian. Why am I no longer surprised by this kind of stuff?
listless 5y ago
Until we know the truth (which we do now), all reasonable options are on the table. Discussing them while the verdict is still out doesn’t make you a conspiracy theorist.
xenocyon 5y ago
"Even" HN? HN is massively prone to conspiracy theories and misinformation. Just to pick one example of many, I have seen more Covid denialism on HN than any other milieu I'm part of.
defaultprimate 5y ago
How much do you want to bet that this goes from conspiracy theory to probably true in the coming months, like so many other things have over the course of the past year?

This post is an excellent reminder that even HN is not immune to rampant conspiracy theorists and to take everything with a grain of salt. HNers are not uniquely intelligent nor capable.

TeeMassive 5y ago

Labeling something a "conspiracy theory" is intellectual laziness and not a rebuttal in any shape or form.

knownjorbist 5y ago
The problem is that it takes far more effort to dispel and debunk BS than it does to create and spread it in the first place. By the time anyone has the chance to conclusively debunk this tripe, the creators are already miles away on their next grift.
- seanw444 5y ago
  Well then it's time and effort well-spent. Saying "that's a conspiracy" won't change anybody's mind, and they'll still be on their next grift.
- TeeMassive 5y ago
  > the creators are already miles away on their next grift That's just a conspiracy theory

hunterb123 5y ago

What are you considering is the conspiracy theory? The walk off happened, just because the CEO says it didn't, doesn't make it so. https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447679841717919744?s=20 https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447679841717919744?...

ceejayoz 5y ago
The CEO, the union, the FAA, and the fact that they're getting back to normal all say the walk-off didn't happen. "We didn’t see sick leave beyond normal. In fact, we saw our crews picking up open time to the extent that they could."
- hunterb123 5y ago
  This is about the pilots, not the union, the FAA, or the CEO. Why hasn't anyone interviewed the pilots? Seems that would clear things up.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > Why hasn't anyone interviewed the pilots? Seems that would clear things up. I'm not sure why you'd think that. It's likely I can find a doctor to interview who doesn't believe in germ theory; that doesn't tell me how widespread that is. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/sou... > Murray told the Dallas Morning News that the data showed that pilot sick rates during the heavy cancellation days were "exactly in line with where they were all summer with the same kind of operational disasters." Actual data on sick leave seems more useful that an individual anecdote or two.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      I meant the pilots who were there. Should be easy to clear up if the CEO just lets the pilots speak on how happy they are with the jab and how they totally didn't walk out. For some reason we've only seen union leaders, the CEO, and others come out. If they really wanted to dispel things they'd let the pilots speak.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        > If they really wanted to dispel things they'd let the pilots speak. Perhaps via their official representatives, the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association? How many pilots would you need to see interviewed to determine there wasn't a sick-out? After all, something like 70% of flights went ahead.

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago

First, allow me to say that just because something is a theory, conspiracy, or both, does not automatically make it untrue no matter how much that word association may have been tarnished. Being distrusting is a basic human condition honed by evolution. Only short lived and lucky people trusted lions not to eat them. Naturally, some individuals believe every single theory put forward, which is an issue, but it does not mean it is not valid to ask a simple question along the lines of: "If it was the weather, why is only SW affected?"

ceejayoz 5y ago
"If it was the weather, why is only SW affected?" Same question, but for vaccines. United, Delta, American, Alaska all instituted the same mandate. (The answer you seek is in the linked article, which literally has a section starting with the quote "The common question, then, is why Southwest was affected so much worse than other carriers.")
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  Based on the actual quote from the article: “The big issue is that Florida is roughly 15% of our trips, but on any given day, upwards of 50% of our aircraft lines flow through Florida,” Jordan told TPG. “You’ve got all those lines that just stopped in Florida, so you’ve got a lot of aircraft caught up in that,” he said. Are you telling me that SW is so unique that it is the only airline with so much flow in Florida? I genuinely don't know. Do you happen to know?
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    It's a couple lines down. Read the whole thing. > Jordan said it was particularly the line-flow system that Southwest uses as part of a point-to-point network that made it harder for Southwest to recover than other airlines with heavy exposure in Florida, such as American, which has a hub in Miami as part of its hub-and-spoke network. Southwest is unusual in having this "line-flow" system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-point_transit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-point_transit

temp_praneshp 5y ago

HN has a healthy number of conspiracy theorists and flat out liars. There was a post about Apple keeping the 30% cut on refunded apps last year that is a good example. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23995750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23995750

shadilay 5y ago

HN is getting it wrong because everyone else is. The real story is that pilots unions are never allowed to strike and sick outs are illegal. If the company or union admitted to doing so they would be in breach of the Railway Labor Act. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Mediation_Board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Mediation_Board https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XYpZg0SPCE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XYpZg0SPCE

knownjorbist 5y ago
Or... you want the idea of a walkout by pilots over a vaccine mandate to be true, and like most conspiratorial thinkers, to be "in" on this truth, to have seen through the lies that the sheeple cannot. I highly doubt any real number of airline pilots are walking out over a vaccine mandate - because they've probably been vaccinated for months now.
- shadilay 5y ago
  You accuse me of being a conspiratorial thinker? Please do not resort to ad hominem when I have provided you ample evidence. The NMB wikipedia article describes the process airline pilots unions must follow before being allowed to strike. The legal basis for this is found in the Railway Labor Act. >NMB programs provide an integrated dispute resolution process to meet the statutory objective of minimizing strikes and other work stoppages in the airline and railroad industries. A few key points from the video: The last time a major airline was allowed by the NMB to strike it lasted for 24 minutes before they were ordered back to work by President Clinton. It is the NMB's mission statement to prevent strikes and labor disruption in the airline and rail industries. Job actions (including sick outs) are not allowed. When Pilots did a slow down by following FAA regulations precisely a Judge stopped them. I am not a Southwest employee so I cannot tell you how many pilots walked out. What I can say however is that if the union claimed to be involved with job actions that would be an admission of a crime.
  - seanw444 5y ago
    That sounds freakishly authoritarian. Why am I no longer surprised by this kind of stuff?

listless 5y ago

Until we know the truth (which we do now), all reasonable options are on the table. Discussing them while the verdict is still out doesn’t make you a conspiracy theorist.

xenocyon 5y ago

"Even" HN? HN is massively prone to conspiracy theories and misinformation. Just to pick one example of many, I have seen more Covid denialism on HN than any other milieu I'm part of.

defaultprimate 5y ago

How much do you want to bet that this goes from conspiracy theory to probably true in the coming months, like so many other things have over the course of the past year?