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You're correct, but presumably in the wrong direction given your comment history. Any time a complex system fails, smart folks dig into precipitating and root

You're correct, but presumably in the wrong direction given your comment history. Any time a complex system fails, smart folks dig into precipitating and root causes while ideological idiots dream of conspiracy. I've actually seen this is professional contexts, where idiots blamed a series of hardware failures on employee sabotage. Turns out there was a component with a 1-in-10,000,000[^1] failure rate that was failing almost exactly 1-in-10,000,000 times and the distribution of the failures was clustered by pure accident. [^1]: Or something like that. It was a decade ago.

hunterb123 5y ago
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447679841717919744?s=20 https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447679841717919744?...
- brendoelfrendo 5y ago
  Idk who Benny Johnson is, but he certainly seems like a reliable and unbiased source of commentary /s
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    That's either a really good fake rendering of an airplane or it looks exactly like southwest's airliner. Or maybe he snuck up to a real one and hung the flag himself /s (edit: the "controversial tweet") https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447679841717919744?s=20 https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447679841717919744?...
    - brendoelfrendo 5y ago
      Well, let's thank that one pilot who is obviously flying for refusing to fly to stick up for his beliefs. Wait a minute...
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        I don't think the pilot that hung that would be flying, most likely they now have replacements after their "weather events" that came out of nowhere.
        zenithd 5y ago
        > after their "weather events" that came out of nowhere. Yeah complex systems running on a razor's edge NEVER fail! NOAA and all the other weather forecast/data providers are all in on the conspiracy! /s But seriously, I couldn't have asked for a better demonstration of my original comment. Thanks.
        hunterb123 5y ago
        No other airliner was affected though.
        zenithd 5y ago
        ...right, because of southwest's routes and the location of their planes when airspace became unavailable. Which, again, is a claim that you don't need to take the CEO's word on. The data can be scraped for free or purchased for cheap. Is the FAA in on it too? And not just the FAA. That's real-time data that thousands or perhaps millions of people download and keep local copies of for at least sliding windows of time. So every single private company and individual who downloaded and stored that data in the hours leading up to the disruption would have to also go back and modify their local copies. Thousands, maybe millions, of people. To believe weather and airspace closures didn't play a major role you have to believe that those closures didn't happen or that Southwest is not truthful about where its planes were. But either of those means either completely disregarding objective evidence or believing in a MASSIVE conspiracy to modify that data. A conspiracy involving literally millions of people. Almost all of whom have literally no incentive to lie and would have had to take an active role in deleting historical data and replacing it with fabricated data. Just... what?! Also, this observation cuts both ways: why only and exactly southwest's pilots and for only one day?
    - zenithd 5y ago
      I can't see your original comment because it's flagged, but I'll assume it's some sort of anti-vax flag hanging from a Southwest plane. So... so what? The explanation from Southwest's CEO makes sense and matches up against a ton of publicly available data. On the other hand there's evidence of at least one pissed off pilot (who, none-the-less, showed up to work?) But, again, all that other data still exists. So. Either there's a vast conspiracy that involves NOAA, the FAA, airport admin, air traffic controllers, Southwest, the pilot's union, etc. Or else one dude flew a flag and also there was a massive scheduling failure and the two are unrelated. I genuinely couldn't have asked for a better exemplar of my original post: seeing a ton of verifiable data vs. a single anecdote and choosing to implicitly believe in a vast conspiracy because the anecdote touches one's feels the right way.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        > I can't see your original comment because it's flagged Yeah that's what this community likes to do with conflicting information. > So... so what? The explanation from Southwest's CEO makes sense and matches up against a ton of publicly available data. We trust the CEO on his word, but a Gadsden flag hanging out of a window must be either a fake rendering or someone else must have snuck onto an airport runway and hung it there in an unrelated event and waited for this event to post it.
        zenithd 5y ago
        > We trust the CEO on his word, but a Gadsden flag hanging out of a window must be either a fake rendering or someone else must have snuck onto an airport runway and hung it there in an unrelated event and waited for this event to post it. um... the post you're replying to says: >> Or else one dude flew a flag and also there was a massive scheduling failure and the two are unrelated. and also >> Either there's a vast conspiracy that involves NOAA, the FAA, airport admin, air traffic controllers, Southwest, the pilot's union, etc. So... 1. I'm not just trusting the CEO. 2. I never claimed the picture is doctored (because even if it's not... who cares? What is that evidence of? One person. I don't need to check the veracity of the picture because it doesn't prove anything substantive... it's an anecdote, and a poor one at that.) Try again.
    - knownjorbist 5y ago
      Benny Johnson is another run-of-the-mill far right grifter, nothing to see here. One pilot does not a walk-out make. The anti-vax and anti-mandate crowd are desperate for an real "walkout" to occur beyond the handfuls of people who made a lot of noise on social media about doing so, so naturally they flock to this one hoping it's the real deal. It isn't.
twofornone 5y ago
>while ideological idiots dream of conspiracy. You don't need to be an "ideological idiot" to recognize that some proportion of employees nationwide are opposed to mandates and that it isn't a stretch that some might officially or unofficially stage a walkout/strike. This wouldn't exactly be the first that that officials were not forthcoming about events that reflected poorly on them or their businesses. This isn't just a complex of interacting hardware, there are people involved, some of whom have an outsized influence over its behavior, apparent or actual. I think its a greater example of "ideological idiocy" to make underhanded assumptions about someone's comment after scouring their post history for wrongthink.
Zpalmtree 5y ago
there are never conspiracies, just trust the experts. weird comment
- zenithd 5y ago
  Except you don't have to trust the experts on this one. Either the experts are presenting an incredibly reasonable and almost certainly true description of precipitating causes, or else NOAA, FAA, and everyone who collects their real-time datastreams are all in on a vast conspiracy to falsify data.

hunterb123 5y ago

https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447679841717919744?s=20 https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447679841717919744?...

brendoelfrendo 5y ago
Idk who Benny Johnson is, but he certainly seems like a reliable and unbiased source of commentary /s
- hunterb123 5y ago
  That's either a really good fake rendering of an airplane or it looks exactly like southwest's airliner. Or maybe he snuck up to a real one and hung the flag himself /s (edit: the "controversial tweet") https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447679841717919744?s=20 https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447679841717919744?...
  - brendoelfrendo 5y ago
    Well, let's thank that one pilot who is obviously flying for refusing to fly to stick up for his beliefs. Wait a minute...
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      I don't think the pilot that hung that would be flying, most likely they now have replacements after their "weather events" that came out of nowhere.
      - zenithd 5y ago
        > after their "weather events" that came out of nowhere. Yeah complex systems running on a razor's edge NEVER fail! NOAA and all the other weather forecast/data providers are all in on the conspiracy! /s But seriously, I couldn't have asked for a better demonstration of my original comment. Thanks.
        hunterb123 5y ago
        No other airliner was affected though.
        zenithd 5y ago
        ...right, because of southwest's routes and the location of their planes when airspace became unavailable. Which, again, is a claim that you don't need to take the CEO's word on. The data can be scraped for free or purchased for cheap. Is the FAA in on it too? And not just the FAA. That's real-time data that thousands or perhaps millions of people download and keep local copies of for at least sliding windows of time. So every single private company and individual who downloaded and stored that data in the hours leading up to the disruption would have to also go back and modify their local copies. Thousands, maybe millions, of people. To believe weather and airspace closures didn't play a major role you have to believe that those closures didn't happen or that Southwest is not truthful about where its planes were. But either of those means either completely disregarding objective evidence or believing in a MASSIVE conspiracy to modify that data. A conspiracy involving literally millions of people. Almost all of whom have literally no incentive to lie and would have had to take an active role in deleting historical data and replacing it with fabricated data. Just... what?! Also, this observation cuts both ways: why only and exactly southwest's pilots and for only one day?
  - zenithd 5y ago
    I can't see your original comment because it's flagged, but I'll assume it's some sort of anti-vax flag hanging from a Southwest plane. So... so what? The explanation from Southwest's CEO makes sense and matches up against a ton of publicly available data. On the other hand there's evidence of at least one pissed off pilot (who, none-the-less, showed up to work?) But, again, all that other data still exists. So. Either there's a vast conspiracy that involves NOAA, the FAA, airport admin, air traffic controllers, Southwest, the pilot's union, etc. Or else one dude flew a flag and also there was a massive scheduling failure and the two are unrelated. I genuinely couldn't have asked for a better exemplar of my original post: seeing a ton of verifiable data vs. a single anecdote and choosing to implicitly believe in a vast conspiracy because the anecdote touches one's feels the right way.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      > I can't see your original comment because it's flagged Yeah that's what this community likes to do with conflicting information. > So... so what? The explanation from Southwest's CEO makes sense and matches up against a ton of publicly available data. We trust the CEO on his word, but a Gadsden flag hanging out of a window must be either a fake rendering or someone else must have snuck onto an airport runway and hung it there in an unrelated event and waited for this event to post it.
      - zenithd 5y ago
        > We trust the CEO on his word, but a Gadsden flag hanging out of a window must be either a fake rendering or someone else must have snuck onto an airport runway and hung it there in an unrelated event and waited for this event to post it. um... the post you're replying to says: >> Or else one dude flew a flag and also there was a massive scheduling failure and the two are unrelated. and also >> Either there's a vast conspiracy that involves NOAA, the FAA, airport admin, air traffic controllers, Southwest, the pilot's union, etc. So... 1. I'm not just trusting the CEO. 2. I never claimed the picture is doctored (because even if it's not... who cares? What is that evidence of? One person. I don't need to check the veracity of the picture because it doesn't prove anything substantive... it's an anecdote, and a poor one at that.) Try again.
  - knownjorbist 5y ago
    Benny Johnson is another run-of-the-mill far right grifter, nothing to see here. One pilot does not a walk-out make. The anti-vax and anti-mandate crowd are desperate for an real "walkout" to occur beyond the handfuls of people who made a lot of noise on social media about doing so, so naturally they flock to this one hoping it's the real deal. It isn't.

twofornone 5y ago

>while ideological idiots dream of conspiracy. You don't need to be an "ideological idiot" to recognize that some proportion of employees nationwide are opposed to mandates and that it isn't a stretch that some might officially or unofficially stage a walkout/strike. This wouldn't exactly be the first that that officials were not forthcoming about events that reflected poorly on them or their businesses. This isn't just a complex of interacting hardware, there are people involved, some of whom have an outsized influence over its behavior, apparent or actual. I think its a greater example of "ideological idiocy" to make underhanded assumptions about someone's comment after scouring their post history for wrongthink.

Zpalmtree 5y ago

there are never conspiracies, just trust the experts. weird comment

zenithd 5y ago
Except you don't have to trust the experts on this one. Either the experts are presenting an incredibly reasonable and almost certainly true description of precipitating causes, or else NOAA, FAA, and everyone who collects their real-time datastreams are all in on a vast conspiracy to falsify data.