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Anecdotally I don't know a single licensed pilot who is antivaccine. They generally all have a high degree of respect for science and engineering. The idea that

Anecdotally I don't know a single licensed pilot who is antivaccine. They generally all have a high degree of respect for science and engineering. The idea that masses of southwest pilots suddenly decided to "sick out" to protest a vaccine mandate is laughable. I would bet good money that the vaccination rate among Southwest pilots is probably 85%+.

lucaspm98 5y ago
I somewhat doubt a large scale sickout occurred, but being anti-COVID vaccine and anti-COVID vaccine mandate for continued employment are two separate issues.
Alupis 5y ago
Well, seems you are pretty wrong[1]. There's plenty of highly educated people that respect both science and engineering, but do not support mandatory COVID vaccines for a plethora of reasons. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-09/southwest-air-pilots-seek-to-block-covid-vaccination-mandate https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-09/southwest...
- anoonmoose 5y ago
  Your appeal to authority reminded me of when "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth" managed to sucker me into believing their conspiracy theories when I was in undergrad.
  - walrus01 5y ago
    The name of that organization reminds me of the covid19 conspiracy theorists/antivaxxers at "America's Frontline Doctors". Turns out you can just name an organization anything you want to make it appear legit. Time to sign up for some horse paste ordered via internet! https://time.com/6092368/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-19-misinformation/ https://time.com/6092368/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-19...
    - BurnGpuBurn 5y ago
      Do you realize that the "horse paste" meme was launched directy after Joe Rogan got Covid and cured himself by taking Ivermectine? Makes you think, doesn't it?
      - anoonmoose 5y ago
        One, I think your timeline is wrong (Rogan got it early Sept. [1] but even the FDA was making "you're not a horse" jokes in late August [2]), and two, just because Rogan took it and got better doesn't mean it's what cured him (I believe he took multiple medications/treatments and most people his age recover from COVID regardless) [1] https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/01/media/joe-rogan-covid/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/01/media/joe-rogan-covid/index.h... [2] https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050070243192839 https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050070243192839
- margalabargala 5y ago
  Nothing in that link contradicts anything the OP said. It has no statistics for pilot vaccination rates, and OP never said anything about mandatory vaccines, commenting only on the likely number of pilots who had already received a vaccine. There are two different issues at play here: whether someone has gotten the vaccine themselves, and whether someone supports making it mandatory. The person you replied to was talking about the former, you appear to have misunderstood it as the latter.
  - Alupis 5y ago
    OP > Anecdotally I don't know a single licensed pilot who is antivaccine. They generally all have a high degree of respect for science and engineering. The idea that masses of southwest pilots suddenly decided to "sick out" to protest a vaccine mandate is laughable My link shows this simply is untrue. The pilot's own union was seeking to block the mandate - just because you are a pilot doesn't mean you're down with mandating vaccines for employment.
CheezeIt 5y ago
Opposing mandates isn’t anti-vaccine or anti-science.
- josephorjoe 5y ago
  what is it then? pro-prolonging-the-pandemic i think if someone finds themself on Team Keep the Pandemic Going, they should reconsider what brought them there.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    The virus is endemic now, the pandemic is over. Get vaccinated if you wish, most people already have natural immunity.
    - hall0ween 5y ago
      Citation?
  - Zpalmtree 5y ago
    why aren't we locking everyone in a 2m cage with food delivered by drone to stop the pandemic faster
  - tomp 5y ago
    People who've had the disease have no reason to get vaccinated, denying that is simply denying data&science. In any case, the pandemic won't end when everyone's vaccinated, but instead when everyone stops being afraid of it; the virus cannot be stopped (at least not with the current version of the vaccines) so the only change possible is the society's reaction to it.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    Anti-science is religion which is blindly following a myth. Are you blinding following the myth that covid will go away if everyone gets a shot? Anyone who doesn't have one is holding this up?
ipaddr 5y ago
Science is about waiting for the long term studies, taking in new information and asking questions & running experiments to proof theories. Shutting down other opinions is anti-science. The word science is being used when political should be.
- ShamelessC 5y ago
  Peer review is a fundamental tenet of science.
shadilay 5y ago
This is a strange attitude given that the highest level of vaccine hesitancy is among the most educated. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v...
throwawaysea 5y ago
Is it that laughable? Aren’t many pilots former military pilots? Perhaps they just respect civil liberties and view bodily autonomy as a fundamental right that is being unconstitutionally eroded by executive order after executive order. The ACLU felt vaccine mandates were both a violation of civil liberties and unconstitutional until only very recently, when they shifted positions due to their growing partisanship.
- javagram 5y ago
  Your point cuts the other way - anyone who has joined the military showed they are accepting of vaccine mandates and are okay with giving up their bodily autonomy in this sphere. The military mandates service members receive between 9 and 17 different vaccines before COVID had ever been heard of. https://www.yahoo.com/now/17-vaccines-mandated-us-military-165900126.html https://www.yahoo.com/now/17-vaccines-mandated-us-military-1...
  - throwawaysea 5y ago
    My point is slightly different. I’m making the claim that those who serve vow to defend the constitution, and regardless of their personal choice, they are likely to dislike authoritarian mandates that go against civil liberty and the constitution.
  - pedroma 5y ago
    Maybe there's hesitancy because the mRNA vaccine is relatively untested compared to all those other vaccines that were mandated.
    - javagram 5y ago
      Perhaps, but there's an FDA EUA for an adenovirus-based vaccine (Johnson and Johnson) if one is simply scared of the mRNA technology. An adenovirus-based vaccine was already submitted for approval in 2019 for Ebola, and approved midway through 2020 after years of trials, so we know the technology wasn't rushed because of COVID.

lucaspm98 5y ago

I somewhat doubt a large scale sickout occurred, but being anti-COVID vaccine and anti-COVID vaccine mandate for continued employment are two separate issues.

Alupis 5y ago

Well, seems you are pretty wrong[1]. There's plenty of highly educated people that respect both science and engineering, but do not support mandatory COVID vaccines for a plethora of reasons. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-09/southwest-air-pilots-seek-to-block-covid-vaccination-mandate https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-09/southwest...

anoonmoose 5y ago
Your appeal to authority reminded me of when "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth" managed to sucker me into believing their conspiracy theories when I was in undergrad.
- walrus01 5y ago
  The name of that organization reminds me of the covid19 conspiracy theorists/antivaxxers at "America's Frontline Doctors". Turns out you can just name an organization anything you want to make it appear legit. Time to sign up for some horse paste ordered via internet! https://time.com/6092368/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-19-misinformation/ https://time.com/6092368/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-19...
  - BurnGpuBurn 5y ago
    Do you realize that the "horse paste" meme was launched directy after Joe Rogan got Covid and cured himself by taking Ivermectine? Makes you think, doesn't it?
    - anoonmoose 5y ago
      One, I think your timeline is wrong (Rogan got it early Sept. [1] but even the FDA was making "you're not a horse" jokes in late August [2]), and two, just because Rogan took it and got better doesn't mean it's what cured him (I believe he took multiple medications/treatments and most people his age recover from COVID regardless) [1] https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/01/media/joe-rogan-covid/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/01/media/joe-rogan-covid/index.h... [2] https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050070243192839 https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050070243192839
margalabargala 5y ago
Nothing in that link contradicts anything the OP said. It has no statistics for pilot vaccination rates, and OP never said anything about mandatory vaccines, commenting only on the likely number of pilots who had already received a vaccine. There are two different issues at play here: whether someone has gotten the vaccine themselves, and whether someone supports making it mandatory. The person you replied to was talking about the former, you appear to have misunderstood it as the latter.
- Alupis 5y ago
  OP > Anecdotally I don't know a single licensed pilot who is antivaccine. They generally all have a high degree of respect for science and engineering. The idea that masses of southwest pilots suddenly decided to "sick out" to protest a vaccine mandate is laughable My link shows this simply is untrue. The pilot's own union was seeking to block the mandate - just because you are a pilot doesn't mean you're down with mandating vaccines for employment.

CheezeIt 5y ago

Opposing mandates isn’t anti-vaccine or anti-science.

josephorjoe 5y ago
what is it then? pro-prolonging-the-pandemic i think if someone finds themself on Team Keep the Pandemic Going, they should reconsider what brought them there.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  The virus is endemic now, the pandemic is over. Get vaccinated if you wish, most people already have natural immunity.
  - hall0ween 5y ago
    Citation?
- Zpalmtree 5y ago
  why aren't we locking everyone in a 2m cage with food delivered by drone to stop the pandemic faster
- tomp 5y ago
  People who've had the disease have no reason to get vaccinated, denying that is simply denying data&science. In any case, the pandemic won't end when everyone's vaccinated, but instead when everyone stops being afraid of it; the virus cannot be stopped (at least not with the current version of the vaccines) so the only change possible is the society's reaction to it.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Anti-science is religion which is blindly following a myth. Are you blinding following the myth that covid will go away if everyone gets a shot? Anyone who doesn't have one is holding this up?

ipaddr 5y ago

Science is about waiting for the long term studies, taking in new information and asking questions & running experiments to proof theories. Shutting down other opinions is anti-science. The word science is being used when political should be.

ShamelessC 5y ago
Peer review is a fundamental tenet of science.

shadilay 5y ago

This is a strange attitude given that the highest level of vaccine hesitancy is among the most educated. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v...

throwawaysea 5y ago

Is it that laughable? Aren’t many pilots former military pilots? Perhaps they just respect civil liberties and view bodily autonomy as a fundamental right that is being unconstitutionally eroded by executive order after executive order. The ACLU felt vaccine mandates were both a violation of civil liberties and unconstitutional until only very recently, when they shifted positions due to their growing partisanship.

javagram 5y ago
Your point cuts the other way - anyone who has joined the military showed they are accepting of vaccine mandates and are okay with giving up their bodily autonomy in this sphere. The military mandates service members receive between 9 and 17 different vaccines before COVID had ever been heard of. https://www.yahoo.com/now/17-vaccines-mandated-us-military-165900126.html https://www.yahoo.com/now/17-vaccines-mandated-us-military-1...
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  My point is slightly different. I’m making the claim that those who serve vow to defend the constitution, and regardless of their personal choice, they are likely to dislike authoritarian mandates that go against civil liberty and the constitution.
- pedroma 5y ago
  Maybe there's hesitancy because the mRNA vaccine is relatively untested compared to all those other vaccines that were mandated.
  - javagram 5y ago
    Perhaps, but there's an FDA EUA for an adenovirus-based vaccine (Johnson and Johnson) if one is simply scared of the mRNA technology. An adenovirus-based vaccine was already submitted for approval in 2019 for Ebola, and approved midway through 2020 after years of trials, so we know the technology wasn't rushed because of COVID.