4 ms·

I have a few questions on this: - If the family of the prisoner consents, then would it be ok? - If they are going to do it anyway.Wouldn't be better that they

I have a few questions on this: - If the family of the prisoner consents, then would it be ok? - If they are going to do it anyway.Wouldn't be better that they share the research with the world? I understand that it has to do with human dignity and rights, etc. But I always assumed that here in the US you get your organs taken off(I'm aware of the mark on the DL) anyway, when you die in an accident, etc. Do the family of the deceased checks the body to make sure all the organs are there? Just asking, I don't know a lot about ethics related to medicine.

siva7 5y ago
No, it wouldn't be OK by international governing standards. Ethical Rules are very strict and explicit prisoner "consent" is one of these areas. The other thing is that the donor numbers china is presenting to the medical community don't make statistically much sense except if you have a huge population of non-consenting prisoners. Which is also the reason why china is banned from many international donor programs.
- masterof0 5y ago
  yeah, makes sense.
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  Considering that a number of Western countries have moved to "deemed consent" when it comes to organ harvesting I don't think that the absence of explicit consent is the sticking point. Rather, I think the ethical issue is ignoring explicit refusal.
Turing_Machine 5y ago
From what I remember from Human Subjects training in my grad school days, the prison environment is considered to be so coercive that it pretty much makes "informed consent" unobtainable. While some studies are still done on prisoners, the bar to getting such a study approved is very high (or at least, is supposed to be very high). There have been indeed cases where organs were harvested without permission (not just from prisoners, either). The difference is that in the United States (and almost all other countries) this is considered to be a crime, and you go to jail if you get caught doing it.
- masterof0 5y ago
  Yeah, I was just wondering if hospitals actually have a way of getting away with this, as families never check for their loved ones body.
nerdwaller 5y ago
> If they are going to do it anyway. Wouldn't be better that they share the research with the world? There’s precedent already that these types of things are inhumane and the data shouldn’t be used strictly based on the ethics of it. One example includes experiments done by Nazi Germany in the 1940s[0]. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation
- masterof0 5y ago
  I see, makes sense, I knew about the experiments conducted by Germans in the concentration camps, I thought we brought them home afterwards. I understand.

siva7 5y ago

No, it wouldn't be OK by international governing standards. Ethical Rules are very strict and explicit prisoner "consent" is one of these areas. The other thing is that the donor numbers china is presenting to the medical community don't make statistically much sense except if you have a huge population of non-consenting prisoners. Which is also the reason why china is banned from many international donor programs.

masterof0 5y ago
yeah, makes sense.
mytailorisrich 5y ago
Considering that a number of Western countries have moved to "deemed consent" when it comes to organ harvesting I don't think that the absence of explicit consent is the sticking point. Rather, I think the ethical issue is ignoring explicit refusal.

Turing_Machine 5y ago

From what I remember from Human Subjects training in my grad school days, the prison environment is considered to be so coercive that it pretty much makes "informed consent" unobtainable. While some studies are still done on prisoners, the bar to getting such a study approved is very high (or at least, is supposed to be very high). There have been indeed cases where organs were harvested without permission (not just from prisoners, either). The difference is that in the United States (and almost all other countries) this is considered to be a crime, and you go to jail if you get caught doing it.

masterof0 5y ago
Yeah, I was just wondering if hospitals actually have a way of getting away with this, as families never check for their loved ones body.

nerdwaller 5y ago

> If they are going to do it anyway. Wouldn't be better that they share the research with the world? There’s precedent already that these types of things are inhumane and the data shouldn’t be used strictly based on the ethics of it. One example includes experiments done by Nazi Germany in the 1940s[0]. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

masterof0 5y ago
I see, makes sense, I knew about the experiments conducted by Germans in the concentration camps, I thought we brought them home afterwards. I understand.