4 ms·

What I think GP is hinting at is that low trust in science is part of a general low trust in elites. If you don’t trust elites for whatever reason, personally I

What I think GP is hinting at is that low trust in science is part of a general low trust in elites. If you don’t trust elites for whatever reason, personally I think it’s more complicated than $300 insulin, then you’re also not going to trust scientific elites either.

whatshisface 5y ago
In what universe are researchers elites and where do I apply for their work visa?
- geodel 5y ago
  Maybe PhDs or PostDocs are not elites but professors they work for, definitely are elites. If you need work visa you are not in elite category. It is like asking how to apply visa to be senator, governor, member of congress or millionaire entrepreneur and so on.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  Elite is not equivalent to rich. In particular their high level of training and education puts them into a special social class that very much makes them elite compared to the rest of society.
- dls2016 5y ago
  You could replace “elite” with “professional class.”
  - sjwalter 5y ago
    Researchers and scientists are absolutely not elites. However, they almost exclusively rely on the ruling class for their funding, for their platforms, for their careers, and thus they become de facto toadies of the elite. Just go see how well the ruling class is treating the doctors that are actually fighting covid on the front lines, showing it's a treatable ailment, saving lives. Since their perspectives don't align with Team Elite's clear agenda (inject everyone, boosters forever!), they are ridiculed, shamed, relegated to alternative or "low status" press.
    - ashtonkem 5y ago
      > Researchers and scientists are absolutely not elites. However, they almost exclusively rely on the ruling class for their funding, for their platforms, for their careers, and thus they become de facto toadies of the elite. You’re confusing economic class and social class. PhDs might not be rich, but they have a much elevated social status compared to the vast majority of the populace.
      - sjwalter 5y ago
        PhDs in general may have a very minor elevation in status compared to other social groups. There are many, many PhDs, many of them working shitty jobs outside their fields. Think outside STEM, wherein generations of poor saps were sold on the professorial life when entering their PhD program but now have their Gender Studies or Literature PhD proudly on their shared apartment wall while they drive bus for the city of Columbus.
    - dls2016 5y ago
      I agree they aren’t elites, which is why I’m suggesting the term “professional” instead of “scientific elite” in the GP post above. The professional class are the foot soldiers of the elite class. I subscribe to the view put forth in “Disciplined Minds,” a great book on the subject. https://louisville.edu/journal/workplace/martinreview.html https://louisville.edu/journal/workplace/martinreview.html
- throwaway09223 5y ago
  Elite doesn't mean wealthy. It means superior, and when we talk about scientific research we're talking about work being done by people with elite training compared to the layman. This is why we talk about peer review including the scientific community, not the community of all people. It is an elite group with specific skills.
giantg2 5y ago
I would say we shouldn't trust institutions on just the fact that they are an institution (elite, other credentialized thing/person). That people will/should build trust based on demonstratable answers to the questions they have. If it's based on credentialing, then we'll end up with people choosing which credentialed person to believe... and taking veterinarian ivermectin because some figure they trust told them too. In general, I think questioning (within reason) government and other institutions helps weed out bad policy and hold them accountable.

whatshisface 5y ago

In what universe are researchers elites and where do I apply for their work visa?

geodel 5y ago
Maybe PhDs or PostDocs are not elites but professors they work for, definitely are elites. If you need work visa you are not in elite category. It is like asking how to apply visa to be senator, governor, member of congress or millionaire entrepreneur and so on.
ashtonkem 5y ago
Elite is not equivalent to rich. In particular their high level of training and education puts them into a special social class that very much makes them elite compared to the rest of society.
dls2016 5y ago
You could replace “elite” with “professional class.”
- sjwalter 5y ago
  Researchers and scientists are absolutely not elites. However, they almost exclusively rely on the ruling class for their funding, for their platforms, for their careers, and thus they become de facto toadies of the elite. Just go see how well the ruling class is treating the doctors that are actually fighting covid on the front lines, showing it's a treatable ailment, saving lives. Since their perspectives don't align with Team Elite's clear agenda (inject everyone, boosters forever!), they are ridiculed, shamed, relegated to alternative or "low status" press.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    > Researchers and scientists are absolutely not elites. However, they almost exclusively rely on the ruling class for their funding, for their platforms, for their careers, and thus they become de facto toadies of the elite. You’re confusing economic class and social class. PhDs might not be rich, but they have a much elevated social status compared to the vast majority of the populace.
    - sjwalter 5y ago
      PhDs in general may have a very minor elevation in status compared to other social groups. There are many, many PhDs, many of them working shitty jobs outside their fields. Think outside STEM, wherein generations of poor saps were sold on the professorial life when entering their PhD program but now have their Gender Studies or Literature PhD proudly on their shared apartment wall while they drive bus for the city of Columbus.
  - dls2016 5y ago
    I agree they aren’t elites, which is why I’m suggesting the term “professional” instead of “scientific elite” in the GP post above. The professional class are the foot soldiers of the elite class. I subscribe to the view put forth in “Disciplined Minds,” a great book on the subject. https://louisville.edu/journal/workplace/martinreview.html https://louisville.edu/journal/workplace/martinreview.html
throwaway09223 5y ago
Elite doesn't mean wealthy. It means superior, and when we talk about scientific research we're talking about work being done by people with elite training compared to the layman. This is why we talk about peer review including the scientific community, not the community of all people. It is an elite group with specific skills.

giantg2 5y ago

I would say we shouldn't trust institutions on just the fact that they are an institution (elite, other credentialized thing/person). That people will/should build trust based on demonstratable answers to the questions they have. If it's based on credentialing, then we'll end up with people choosing which credentialed person to believe... and taking veterinarian ivermectin because some figure they trust told them too. In general, I think questioning (within reason) government and other institutions helps weed out bad policy and hold them accountable.