4 ms·

Zipper merges! It’s my understanding that that’s a norm in some countries, but that’s a social issue and not an infrastructure one.

mc32 5y ago
Yes but more than just zipper merges. There was street realignment which also included a braided flow (crossing lanes because not only would they need to funnel traffic from so of canal to the tunnel but also allow them to get off on a local street before the point of no return to the tunnel and same for the ‘uptown’ side) anyway it was an over complicated solution that only worked in simulation and not with real cars and trucks so none of it was implemented.
- ghaff 5y ago
  I'm less familiar with downtown but the whole area around where the Lincoln Tunnel access is in Midtown is a snarled mess. You have the Port Authority, aka one of the world's worst bus terminals, and more generally just a bunch of intersections that are such a mess that you need cops directing traffic because otherwise you just get gridlock between cars trying to make turns and pedestrians trying to get across streets.
dylan604 5y ago
Most of society seems to have a problem with the notion of allowing someone else first ultimately means faster for everyone vs the asshats that actively speed up to block/deny someone from being able to merge ahead of them. To me, these are the same people that complain about a single longer queue rather than individual queues for each register.
- tharkun__ 5y ago
  Zipper is best and I completely agree that "society as a whole" just doesn't understand it and are outright hostile towards the correct behaviour. Whenever traffic is slow, I make a point of always driving up exactly towards the merge and just sliding into the flow of traffic. Many many times, someone will be pissed at that, either on the way there because my lane is free, sometimes for a very very long stretch and they try to cut me off because I'm 'bypassing' the line or even at the merge, where I just let someone through but then it's my turn but they cut me off. What do these people think? The 2 lane highway is supposed to become a 1 lane highway just because there's a merge ahead (say because of an accident)? How far back is it supposed to become 1 lane? 100 meters? 500 meters? 10 kilometers? I've seen some crazy long lineups with nobody on the second lane for multiple kilometers. The line could easily have been half as long if everyone just stayed on their lane until the merge point and zippered. I remember seeing an experiment on TV (Germany) like 20 years ago, where they had a large truck adhere to the zipper rule, merging exactly where they're supposed to and filming it (doing it over and over) and there were many many cases of the truck having to brake hard as people tried to 'slip by'. This was a 'soft zipper' i.e. lots of space to the front with just lines marked out where the truck could come to a standstill/slow down and go on, so it was a safe experiment. Which ultimately is one of those cases that demonstrate that some ideas are good and 'correct' but "not implementable with humans."

mc32 5y ago

Yes but more than just zipper merges. There was street realignment which also included a braided flow (crossing lanes because not only would they need to funnel traffic from so of canal to the tunnel but also allow them to get off on a local street before the point of no return to the tunnel and same for the ‘uptown’ side) anyway it was an over complicated solution that only worked in simulation and not with real cars and trucks so none of it was implemented.

ghaff 5y ago
I'm less familiar with downtown but the whole area around where the Lincoln Tunnel access is in Midtown is a snarled mess. You have the Port Authority, aka one of the world's worst bus terminals, and more generally just a bunch of intersections that are such a mess that you need cops directing traffic because otherwise you just get gridlock between cars trying to make turns and pedestrians trying to get across streets.

dylan604 5y ago

Most of society seems to have a problem with the notion of allowing someone else first ultimately means faster for everyone vs the asshats that actively speed up to block/deny someone from being able to merge ahead of them. To me, these are the same people that complain about a single longer queue rather than individual queues for each register.

tharkun__ 5y ago
Zipper is best and I completely agree that "society as a whole" just doesn't understand it and are outright hostile towards the correct behaviour. Whenever traffic is slow, I make a point of always driving up exactly towards the merge and just sliding into the flow of traffic. Many many times, someone will be pissed at that, either on the way there because my lane is free, sometimes for a very very long stretch and they try to cut me off because I'm 'bypassing' the line or even at the merge, where I just let someone through but then it's my turn but they cut me off. What do these people think? The 2 lane highway is supposed to become a 1 lane highway just because there's a merge ahead (say because of an accident)? How far back is it supposed to become 1 lane? 100 meters? 500 meters? 10 kilometers? I've seen some crazy long lineups with nobody on the second lane for multiple kilometers. The line could easily have been half as long if everyone just stayed on their lane until the merge point and zippered. I remember seeing an experiment on TV (Germany) like 20 years ago, where they had a large truck adhere to the zipper rule, merging exactly where they're supposed to and filming it (doing it over and over) and there were many many cases of the truck having to brake hard as people tried to 'slip by'. This was a 'soft zipper' i.e. lots of space to the front with just lines marked out where the truck could come to a standstill/slow down and go on, so it was a safe experiment. Which ultimately is one of those cases that demonstrate that some ideas are good and 'correct' but "not implementable with humans."