8 ms·

Is Mozilla Firefox Getting Sketchy?

66 points by amcclure 5y ago

doublerabbit 5y ago
I had to restart my browser today because when opening a new tab I was prompted with: "Firefox has updated in the background and needs to restart". I had no idea the latest version did this. No program should ever self-update without telling the user.
- Liquid_Fire 5y ago
  AFAIK this only happens on Linux if your package manager updates Firefox in the background, which of course Firefox has no control over. On other OSes, it will only update when restarting Firefox (if auto-updating is enabled) or by explicitly prompting you to update.
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    That’s really what happens though, the update is prepared and installs when you restart. Unless it’s a packaged Linux version and the files are updated while the app is running of course. But there is little Firefox can do about that. * edit * Actually this is the same as what you typed
- kappuchino 5y ago
  This is a multi faceted issue: Browsers are the most used pieces of Software, so vulnerabilities are critical to your systems health. I think if Updates were disabled by default, there would be insecure browsers nearly everywhere because I would not likely click a "Would you like to update?" popup. But this comes with the catch of changed functionality and in this case changed data behaviour.
- Tajnymag 5y ago
  For vast majority of users, auto-update is the best way of handling updates. They don't have to think about keeping the browser, their most used software, the tool used to download and execute untrusted content, up to date. As far I know, Firefox has an option to turn the auto-update off.
kappuchino 5y ago
Imho, another point for the European GDPR - it says its US only, and I think this is the reason. Otherwise, this should be off by default.
- tharne 5y ago
  > Imho, another point for the European GDPR - it says its US only As an American, I find it really embarrassing that the Europeans are doing such a better job at protecting individual privacy in this space.
  - AniseAbyss 5y ago
    Does the average American really care that they are constantly being bombarded with ads and sales calls? It seems to me they can live with it.
    - wutbrodo 5y ago
      I switched to Google Voice a decade ago, and it took me years to realize the degree to which everyone else was getting spammed with robocalls. I probably get one a month. I know they don't have Google's technical chops, but I wonder why carriers don't do this? Unless it's not down to spam filtering, and it's simply that it costs more for automated systems to interface with Google Voice (once in a blue moon, entering my GV number into an automated system gets rejected).
      - fzzzy 5y ago
        Interesting. I started with my number as a google voice number and then switched it over to real cell phone service a few years later and I never get spam calls. I wonder what is different about gv numbers.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - 5y ago
tharne 5y ago
This is really unfortunate. For a while Firefox was really differentiating itself via the privacy space. If it's just going to be another Chrome, I might as well just use Chrome.
- atatatat 5y ago
  Use Chromium. Use Vanadium.
  - tharne 5y ago
    I had never hear of Vanadium before. Thanks!
    - m-p-3 5y ago
      There's also Bromite https://www.bromite.org/ https://www.bromite.org/ https://www.bromite.org/fdroid https://www.bromite.org/fdroid https://github.com/bromite/bromite https://github.com/bromite/bromite
      - cf100clunk 5y ago
        Bromite is only for Android but is a must-have. While you're at it, if your Android is rooted and you are comfy with Magisk, replace your stock Google Webview with Bromite System Webview by installing Magisk's Webview Manager module. Optionally, it might be possible to replace Webview using TWRP.
  - rasz 5y ago
    or Vivaldi
- FormerBandmate 5y ago
  It’s just like Apple’s privacy emphasis and then hashing every image with iOS 15. Privacy is just a slogan for a lot of people, unfortunately
  - 5y ago
throwawaysea 5y ago
This sketchiness began a lot earlier. For example on mobile Firefox, the new tab screen has had suggestions from Pocket for a long time. It always felt weird to me that the browser wasn’t just strictly utilitarian. Then there’s all the actions that show Mozilla is injecting politics into their products and services. For example creating an official extension that censors disagreeable speech (https://reclaimthenet.org/firefox-introduces-extension-that-automatically-censors-hate-speech/ https://reclaimthenet.org/firefox-introduces-extension-that-...) while banning one that enables free speech (https://reclaimthenet.org/firefox-rejects-free-speech-bans-free-speech-commenting-plugin-dissenter-from-its-extensions-gallery/ https://reclaimthenet.org/firefox-rejects-free-speech-bans-f...). Or calling for “more than deplatforming”, which is disturbing and feels like early warning of a future where your browser manufacturer may decide what websites you can and can’t visit (https://reclaimthenet.org/firefox-maker-mozilla-calls-for-more-than-deplatforming/ https://reclaimthenet.org/firefox-maker-mozilla-calls-for-mo...). Unsurprisingly they’re also against decentralized tech for predictable reasons (https://reclaimthenet.org/mozilla-turns-its-attention-to-censoring-decentralized-tech/ https://reclaimthenet.org/mozilla-turns-its-attention-to-cen...). We already have powerful masters in Apple and Google. If Mozilla is trying to be more of the same then I might as well use Safari and Chrome. There’s no differentiating advantage to using Mozilla’s products as they stray from their original mission. If anyone has better suggestions for a browser I would love to hear them.
- lillesvin 5y ago
  Depending on your preferences you might enjoy Vivaldi, Qutebrowser or Chromium. That's just off the top of my head. There are obviously many other good browsers out there.
  - throwawaysea 5y ago
    I've tried Vivaldi and it's great. My understanding is that it shares the same components as Chrome. Are there other 'fully independent' browsers? Does that even matter?
    - soundnote 5y ago
lillesvin 5y ago
For me that was obvious when it started showing sponsored content in my "new tab" page (in the speed dial-like list of sites). I just needed a reason to switch to Qutebrowser, so I did.
blacksmith_tb 5y ago
Dupe? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28812243 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28812243
emrah 5y ago
No good intention is able to hold up for too long against the necessity to make money to simply survive if not to thrive

66 points by amcclure 5y ago

I had to restart my browser today because when opening a new tab I was prompted with: "Firefox has updated in the background and needs to restart". I had no idea the latest version did this. No program should ever self-update without telling the user.

Liquid_Fire 5y ago
AFAIK this only happens on Linux if your package manager updates Firefox in the background, which of course Firefox has no control over. On other OSes, it will only update when restarting Firefox (if auto-updating is enabled) or by explicitly prompting you to update.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  That’s really what happens though, the update is prepared and installs when you restart. Unless it’s a packaged Linux version and the files are updated while the app is running of course. But there is little Firefox can do about that. * edit * Actually this is the same as what you typed
kappuchino 5y ago
This is a multi faceted issue: Browsers are the most used pieces of Software, so vulnerabilities are critical to your systems health. I think if Updates were disabled by default, there would be insecure browsers nearly everywhere because I would not likely click a "Would you like to update?" popup. But this comes with the catch of changed functionality and in this case changed data behaviour.
Tajnymag 5y ago
For vast majority of users, auto-update is the best way of handling updates. They don't have to think about keeping the browser, their most used software, the tool used to download and execute untrusted content, up to date. As far I know, Firefox has an option to turn the auto-update off.

kappuchino 5y ago

Imho, another point for the European GDPR - it says its US only, and I think this is the reason. Otherwise, this should be off by default.

tharne 5y ago
> Imho, another point for the European GDPR - it says its US only As an American, I find it really embarrassing that the Europeans are doing such a better job at protecting individual privacy in this space.
- AniseAbyss 5y ago
  Does the average American really care that they are constantly being bombarded with ads and sales calls? It seems to me they can live with it.
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    I switched to Google Voice a decade ago, and it took me years to realize the degree to which everyone else was getting spammed with robocalls. I probably get one a month. I know they don't have Google's technical chops, but I wonder why carriers don't do this? Unless it's not down to spam filtering, and it's simply that it costs more for automated systems to interface with Google Voice (once in a blue moon, entering my GV number into an automated system gets rejected).
    - fzzzy 5y ago
      Interesting. I started with my number as a google voice number and then switched it over to real cell phone service a few years later and I never get spam calls. I wonder what is different about gv numbers.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - 5y ago

tharne 5y ago

This is really unfortunate. For a while Firefox was really differentiating itself via the privacy space. If it's just going to be another Chrome, I might as well just use Chrome.

atatatat 5y ago
Use Chromium. Use Vanadium.
- tharne 5y ago
  I had never hear of Vanadium before. Thanks!
  - m-p-3 5y ago
    There's also Bromite https://www.bromite.org/ https://www.bromite.org/ https://www.bromite.org/fdroid https://www.bromite.org/fdroid https://github.com/bromite/bromite https://github.com/bromite/bromite
    - cf100clunk 5y ago
      Bromite is only for Android but is a must-have. While you're at it, if your Android is rooted and you are comfy with Magisk, replace your stock Google Webview with Bromite System Webview by installing Magisk's Webview Manager module. Optionally, it might be possible to replace Webview using TWRP.
- rasz 5y ago
  or Vivaldi
FormerBandmate 5y ago
It’s just like Apple’s privacy emphasis and then hashing every image with iOS 15. Privacy is just a slogan for a lot of people, unfortunately
- 5y ago

throwawaysea 5y ago

This sketchiness began a lot earlier. For example on mobile Firefox, the new tab screen has had suggestions from Pocket for a long time. It always felt weird to me that the browser wasn’t just strictly utilitarian. Then there’s all the actions that show Mozilla is injecting politics into their products and services. For example creating an official extension that censors disagreeable speech (https://reclaimthenet.org/firefox-introduces-extension-that-automatically-censors-hate-speech/ https://reclaimthenet.org/firefox-introduces-extension-that-...) while banning one that enables free speech (https://reclaimthenet.org/firefox-rejects-free-speech-bans-free-speech-commenting-plugin-dissenter-from-its-extensions-gallery/ https://reclaimthenet.org/firefox-rejects-free-speech-bans-f...). Or calling for “more than deplatforming”, which is disturbing and feels like early warning of a future where your browser manufacturer may decide what websites you can and can’t visit (https://reclaimthenet.org/firefox-maker-mozilla-calls-for-more-than-deplatforming/ https://reclaimthenet.org/firefox-maker-mozilla-calls-for-mo...). Unsurprisingly they’re also against decentralized tech for predictable reasons (https://reclaimthenet.org/mozilla-turns-its-attention-to-censoring-decentralized-tech/ https://reclaimthenet.org/mozilla-turns-its-attention-to-cen...). We already have powerful masters in Apple and Google. If Mozilla is trying to be more of the same then I might as well use Safari and Chrome. There’s no differentiating advantage to using Mozilla’s products as they stray from their original mission. If anyone has better suggestions for a browser I would love to hear them.

lillesvin 5y ago
Depending on your preferences you might enjoy Vivaldi, Qutebrowser or Chromium. That's just off the top of my head. There are obviously many other good browsers out there.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  I've tried Vivaldi and it's great. My understanding is that it shares the same components as Chrome. Are there other 'fully independent' browsers? Does that even matter?
  - soundnote 5y ago

lillesvin 5y ago

For me that was obvious when it started showing sponsored content in my "new tab" page (in the speed dial-like list of sites). I just needed a reason to switch to Qutebrowser, so I did.

blacksmith_tb 5y ago

Dupe? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28812243 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28812243

emrah 5y ago

No good intention is able to hold up for too long against the necessity to make money to simply survive if not to thrive