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This is a bit like saying "The real problem is drug addiction, not heroin. Heroin just seems to be especially good at causing drug addiction." Edit: I'm not go

by samhw 5y ago

This is a bit like saying "The real problem is drug addiction, not heroin. Heroin just seems to be especially good at causing drug addiction." Edit: I'm not going to respond to the replies. I'm just going to add that I used to be a heroin addict, and the replies are classic addict: semi-coherent, indulging in the "ordinary people are just the same as us" trope, moving the blame to other things (with drug addicts it's very often alcohol, with bitcoin addicts it's apparently fiat money). None of them engaging with the point in the context of the argument - just warding off any perceived challenge to their addiction.

mang0tang00 5y ago
This is a bit like saying "The real problem is drug addiction, not chemistry. Chemistry just seems to be especially good at causing drug addiction."
herbst 5y ago
That's true tho, isn't it? Heroin also helped millions of people against pain without getting everyone addicted before we found better opiods for daily use. There are also people using heroin as party drug without high risk of addiction (even thought that may not be a lot)
mateuszf 5y ago
So why don't we say the same about trading gold, currencies or stocks? Curing addiction of stocks, gold or currencies sounds as stupid as curing addiction of bitcoin.
- brianwawok 5y ago
  I see no difference in day trading stocks, bitcoin, or forex. If you buy with the intent to "beat the market" and hold for less than a month-year, I see it as the same as going to the casino and playing a slot machine. There are people sophisticated enough to have an edge in stock trading. Same for being a professional poker player. But this is a very very small % of the market.
  - mateuszf 5y ago
    I also see no difference. What I meant is that the "trading" part is the problem, not a specific asset.
- pjc50 5y ago
  I'm old enough to remember the 2000-era of day traders, just as the internet took off and it was possible to enjoy the thrill of staring at a ticker from your own home. There was enough chaos that a minimum stake rule was made; https://www.finra.org/investors/learn-to-invest/advanced-investing/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules https://www.finra.org/investors/learn-to-invest/advanced-inv... And the seminal paper on the subject: http://www.econ.yale.edu/~shiller/behfin/2004-04-10/barber-lee-liu-odean.pdf http://www.econ.yale.edu/~shiller/behfin/2004-04-10/barber-l... 8/10 day traders in their survey lost money. But there were a few that made returns that not only beat the market but the transaction costs. (I wonder how that's affected by fee-less trading, which instead tends to make money on PFOF and may have larger spreads)
Chris2048 5y ago
But the OP stated: > You can just buy bitcoin and hold it as store of value / investment I'm not sure there's a similar casual use for Heroin. Talk about Cannabis and the sentence starts making sense again. Also, accusing responses of being semi-coherent, indulging and defensive (and implying responders are addicts to boot) isn't really acting in good faith, even if you don't intend to respond. In fact, especially since you don't intend to respond.

by samhw 5y ago

mang0tang00 5y ago

This is a bit like saying "The real problem is drug addiction, not chemistry. Chemistry just seems to be especially good at causing drug addiction."

herbst 5y ago

That's true tho, isn't it? Heroin also helped millions of people against pain without getting everyone addicted before we found better opiods for daily use. There are also people using heroin as party drug without high risk of addiction (even thought that may not be a lot)

mateuszf 5y ago

So why don't we say the same about trading gold, currencies or stocks? Curing addiction of stocks, gold or currencies sounds as stupid as curing addiction of bitcoin.

brianwawok 5y ago
I see no difference in day trading stocks, bitcoin, or forex. If you buy with the intent to "beat the market" and hold for less than a month-year, I see it as the same as going to the casino and playing a slot machine. There are people sophisticated enough to have an edge in stock trading. Same for being a professional poker player. But this is a very very small % of the market.
- mateuszf 5y ago
  I also see no difference. What I meant is that the "trading" part is the problem, not a specific asset.
pjc50 5y ago
I'm old enough to remember the 2000-era of day traders, just as the internet took off and it was possible to enjoy the thrill of staring at a ticker from your own home. There was enough chaos that a minimum stake rule was made; https://www.finra.org/investors/learn-to-invest/advanced-investing/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules https://www.finra.org/investors/learn-to-invest/advanced-inv... And the seminal paper on the subject: http://www.econ.yale.edu/~shiller/behfin/2004-04-10/barber-lee-liu-odean.pdf http://www.econ.yale.edu/~shiller/behfin/2004-04-10/barber-l... 8/10 day traders in their survey lost money. But there were a few that made returns that not only beat the market but the transaction costs. (I wonder how that's affected by fee-less trading, which instead tends to make money on PFOF and may have larger spreads)

Chris2048 5y ago

But the OP stated: > You can just buy bitcoin and hold it as store of value / investment I'm not sure there's a similar casual use for Heroin. Talk about Cannabis and the sentence starts making sense again. Also, accusing responses of being semi-coherent, indulging and defensive (and implying responders are addicts to boot) isn't really acting in good faith, even if you don't intend to respond. In fact, especially since you don't intend to respond.