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Because the picture of Calvin peeing isn't the NFT, the NFT is a cryptographically-secure blockchain that records ownership. They exist so that people can "own"

Because the picture of Calvin peeing isn't the NFT, the NFT is a cryptographically-secure blockchain that records ownership. They exist so that people can "own" the "real copy" of data that has no reason to be scarce. And like the article says, this worthless math is indeed mostly used for cash grabs and money laundering.

sgent 5y ago
Even worse, what happens when Bill Watterson sues for copyright violation and wins? What happens when a court serves an order on every US person / exchange to remove the NFT from their platform or be shut down? Note: The Calvin peeing image is derivative and was never drawn by him. The artist might have a defense of fair use but it is not clear in precedent.
woodruffw 5y ago
I know the picture of Calvin peeing isn't the "proof," it's just the public facing instrument. But this still isn't satisfying: anybody can put another transaction on that same blockchain (or a different one) with another proof of ownership. So which one is the real one?
- rhizome 5y ago
  Fun fact: the entire NFT crypto system is powered by Walter Benjamin[1] spinning in his grave! 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Work_of_Art_in_the_Age_of_Mechanical_Reproduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Work_of_Art_in_the_Age_of_...
- altrum 5y ago
  Author here. Again, this is where "branding" comes in. Once people know which smart-contract is the real one, putting another transaction won't work. Sure, some people may fall for fakes and buy an NFT from a duplicate smart-contract, but this only happens due to the current lack of infrastructure in the ecosystem.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    > Again, this is where "branding" comes in. Once people know which smart-contract is the real one, putting another transaction won't work. I'm sorry, but isn't this exactly the problem you pointed out with luxury goods in your own article? It's all about authenticity and provenance ("the real one"); you've just offloaded the proof from physical quality (which I or anybody else who's sufficiently informed can assess) to a proof of work or some other scheme without solving the actual problem (the bootstrapping of trust).
    - altrum 5y ago
      > (which I or anybody else who's sufficiently informed can assess) But you can’t—that’s why the fake industry is a multi-trillion dollar industry and why StockX, a 4 billion dollar company, still end up selling fakes to consumers
      - woodruffw 5y ago
        > But you can’t—that’s why the fake industry is a multi-trillion dollar industry and why StockX, a 4 billion dollar company, still end up selling fakes to consumers Two things: First, let's say I bite the bullet and accept the claim that a human with sufficient information is no better at verifying the authenticity of an item than an NFT would be. Where does that leave me? Now my Burberry jacket and my monkey JPEG are fakes. How has the state of affairs improved for me? Second: I think the way you're approaching this belies a misapprehension of the counterfeit market. Duplicitous counterfeiting (where the seller deceives an unwitting buyer) is just a fraction of that "multi-trillion dollar industry" -- a very large chunk of it is made of the fake Scott toilet paper and fake Duracell batteries that people knowingly buy at their local dollar store, to say nothing of fake luxuries. There are more harmful examples (adulterated honey and olive oil), but the underlying point is the same: NFTs either (1) don't solve the problem (I eagerly await cryptographic proof that my olive oil is authentic), or (2) are irrelevant because people don't want the problem solved ("I know damn well that my batteries are fake, and I don't care").
        5y ago
grupthink 5y ago
My understanding is that the blockchain records ownership of just a token. If OpenSea or Nifty (or whatever NFT marketplace) shuts down, who then associates the artifact to the token on the blockchain? Would the token you own on the blockchain go worthless?
ggm 5y ago
It only imbues value if the downstream IPR uses carry a subsidary fingerprint to prevent the assumption all copies are liars. Sure, you can NFT the mona lisa. It's only viable if you NFT cross sign every postcard, puzzle, tee shirt ...

sgent 5y ago

Even worse, what happens when Bill Watterson sues for copyright violation and wins? What happens when a court serves an order on every US person / exchange to remove the NFT from their platform or be shut down? Note: The Calvin peeing image is derivative and was never drawn by him. The artist might have a defense of fair use but it is not clear in precedent.

woodruffw 5y ago

I know the picture of Calvin peeing isn't the "proof," it's just the public facing instrument. But this still isn't satisfying: anybody can put another transaction on that same blockchain (or a different one) with another proof of ownership. So which one is the real one?

rhizome 5y ago
Fun fact: the entire NFT crypto system is powered by Walter Benjamin[1] spinning in his grave! 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Work_of_Art_in_the_Age_of_Mechanical_Reproduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Work_of_Art_in_the_Age_of_...
altrum 5y ago
Author here. Again, this is where "branding" comes in. Once people know which smart-contract is the real one, putting another transaction won't work. Sure, some people may fall for fakes and buy an NFT from a duplicate smart-contract, but this only happens due to the current lack of infrastructure in the ecosystem.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  > Again, this is where "branding" comes in. Once people know which smart-contract is the real one, putting another transaction won't work. I'm sorry, but isn't this exactly the problem you pointed out with luxury goods in your own article? It's all about authenticity and provenance ("the real one"); you've just offloaded the proof from physical quality (which I or anybody else who's sufficiently informed can assess) to a proof of work or some other scheme without solving the actual problem (the bootstrapping of trust).
  - altrum 5y ago
    > (which I or anybody else who's sufficiently informed can assess) But you can’t—that’s why the fake industry is a multi-trillion dollar industry and why StockX, a 4 billion dollar company, still end up selling fakes to consumers
    - woodruffw 5y ago
      > But you can’t—that’s why the fake industry is a multi-trillion dollar industry and why StockX, a 4 billion dollar company, still end up selling fakes to consumers Two things: First, let's say I bite the bullet and accept the claim that a human with sufficient information is no better at verifying the authenticity of an item than an NFT would be. Where does that leave me? Now my Burberry jacket and my monkey JPEG are fakes. How has the state of affairs improved for me? Second: I think the way you're approaching this belies a misapprehension of the counterfeit market. Duplicitous counterfeiting (where the seller deceives an unwitting buyer) is just a fraction of that "multi-trillion dollar industry" -- a very large chunk of it is made of the fake Scott toilet paper and fake Duracell batteries that people knowingly buy at their local dollar store, to say nothing of fake luxuries. There are more harmful examples (adulterated honey and olive oil), but the underlying point is the same: NFTs either (1) don't solve the problem (I eagerly await cryptographic proof that my olive oil is authentic), or (2) are irrelevant because people don't want the problem solved ("I know damn well that my batteries are fake, and I don't care").
      - 5y ago

grupthink 5y ago

My understanding is that the blockchain records ownership of just a token. If OpenSea or Nifty (or whatever NFT marketplace) shuts down, who then associates the artifact to the token on the blockchain? Would the token you own on the blockchain go worthless?

ggm 5y ago

It only imbues value if the downstream IPR uses carry a subsidary fingerprint to prevent the assumption all copies are liars. Sure, you can NFT the mona lisa. It's only viable if you NFT cross sign every postcard, puzzle, tee shirt ...