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It's a governance technique meant to curb excesses of the ruling elite, informed by the historical frequency of ill behaved governing bodies and their miscellan

by kyleee 5y ago

It's a governance technique meant to curb excesses of the ruling elite, informed by the historical frequency of ill behaved governing bodies and their miscellaneous maltreatment of the governed

hypertele-Xii 5y ago
That also causes significant loss of life, both domestically and abroad. The punishment feels, to me, disproportionate to the crime. Things like having permission to shoot someone for breaking into your house.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kyleee 5y ago
  Though a bit of a tangent, it's quite reasonable to be able to use force against an intruder in your own house. At least in the US the police have no duty to protect or even respond, and depending on location may be many minutes or even tens of minutes away. It's quite difficult to glean the (true) intent of an intruder, and the possibilities include burglarly, rape, and murder so it's quite reasonable to protect yourself.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  What leads you to conclude that defending yourself with up to/including deadly force against an intruder with unknown (but quite reasonably presumed to be criminal) intent is unreasonable? Breaking into an occupied residence is a quite serious crime and I don't think it's reasonable to require the inhabitants to sit down over tea and find out what the invader's intentions are before mounting a defense. Don't want to get shot after breaking into someone's house? It seems like there's a pretty straightforward way to avoid exposing yourself to that risk.
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    There was a gun in the house when I was a kid. Explicitly to protect the family against intruders. Number of times intrusions occurred: 0 Number of times the gun went off by accident: 2 Number of times a drunken adult gave the gun, loaded, to a kid: 1
    - kyleee 5y ago
      Irresponsibility and negligence are certainly sad but not very good reasons why people should be stripped of the ability to defend themself and their loved ones
      - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
        They are precisely the best of reasons why people should be stripped of such dangerous things. We don't let average people fly airplanes, neither should we let average people shoot firearms. Right after evil, incompetence is the next worst thing for handling dangerous tools.

by kyleee 5y ago

It's a governance technique meant to curb excesses of the ruling elite, informed by the historical frequency of ill behaved governing bodies and their miscellaneous maltreatment of the governed

hypertele-Xii 5y ago

That also causes significant loss of life, both domestically and abroad. The punishment feels, to me, disproportionate to the crime. Things like having permission to shoot someone for breaking into your house.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kyleee 5y ago
Though a bit of a tangent, it's quite reasonable to be able to use force against an intruder in your own house. At least in the US the police have no duty to protect or even respond, and depending on location may be many minutes or even tens of minutes away. It's quite difficult to glean the (true) intent of an intruder, and the possibilities include burglarly, rape, and murder so it's quite reasonable to protect yourself.
sokoloff 5y ago
What leads you to conclude that defending yourself with up to/including deadly force against an intruder with unknown (but quite reasonably presumed to be criminal) intent is unreasonable? Breaking into an occupied residence is a quite serious crime and I don't think it's reasonable to require the inhabitants to sit down over tea and find out what the invader's intentions are before mounting a defense. Don't want to get shot after breaking into someone's house? It seems like there's a pretty straightforward way to avoid exposing yourself to that risk.
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  There was a gun in the house when I was a kid. Explicitly to protect the family against intruders. Number of times intrusions occurred: 0 Number of times the gun went off by accident: 2 Number of times a drunken adult gave the gun, loaded, to a kid: 1
  - kyleee 5y ago
    Irresponsibility and negligence are certainly sad but not very good reasons why people should be stripped of the ability to defend themself and their loved ones
    - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
      They are precisely the best of reasons why people should be stripped of such dangerous things. We don't let average people fly airplanes, neither should we let average people shoot firearms. Right after evil, incompetence is the next worst thing for handling dangerous tools.