9 ms·

Lies of B-School

59 points by krat0sprakhar 15y ago

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
yuhong 15y ago
Some of the lies are dangerous to even teach. For example: http://www.bnet.com/tb/1-48891?tag=content;talkback http://www.bnet.com/tb/1-48891?tag=content;talkback
alexro 15y ago
I dunno if MBAs can be so high about themselves, but I will start giving even less credit them now.
FrancescoRizzi 15y ago
Missing from the list "9 pregnant women in a room for 1 month will produce a baby"
- ThomPete 15y ago
  I don't know why you got down voted. This is actually a very relevant comment despite it's character. Anyone working on big projects with a client can testify to this.
  - FrancescoRizzi 15y ago
    Thanks. I guess someone felt I was being caustic (which, well, I was). Indeed this is one of the recurring problems we've faced in large projects and "we" always wonder if it's something "they" learn in Business School, so I was expecting it to be on the list. Anyways, I'm sure I'm over-simplifying and the issue runs deeper than the academic background.
jsherry 15y ago
Most of the author's points have some merit. However, just to balance the argument out a bit, here are a few truths of the MBA: 1. If you want to become a Goldman (or similar caliber) I-banker or work at a top flight consulting firm, a top MBA is the way to go. Yes there are other ways to get these jobs, but the recruiting processes for these firms are highly targeted and organized when it comes to hiring people from prestigious MBA programs. It truly is the path of least resistance. And if you truly set your mind to becoming employed by one of these firms, you can likely attain it once admitted to a top business school. We can argue the merits of joining one of these companies, but that's another argument entirely. 2. If you go work at said type of firm, your employment options thereafter are wide open. I don't have statistics to back this up, but having worked in corporate for a healthy portion of my career, Goldman and McKinsey candidates were often ear-marked for positions that they applied for. 3. The MBA is good for "career changers". Assuming you want to go the corporate route, an MBA is a very versatile degree. If from a top school, it practically forgives whatever you were doing before the MBA and enables you to transition into something largely unrelated if that's your wish. You need to do a whole lot of networking and build your story to make this happen, but with two years to do so, there's plenty of time. And the fact of the matter is that, regardless of how you regard MBAS, plenty of highly regarded corporates (including Google!) formally plug into the recruiting process at top schools. EDIT: I understand many of the arguments above may not apply to the HN community as it skews entrepreneurial and perhaps academic, but I believe they have merit nonetheless.
- ThomPete 15y ago
  I think you are right but I don't think the OP is refuting that. The problem with MBAs IMO is that they teach you "play the game" more than they teach you to be better at doing business.
  - asdkl234890 15y ago
    Ah but doing better at business is only important if you care more about creating new things than gating paid a lot. If, on the other hand, you are in it for power and money, being better at "playing the game" is where money and power will come from faster and easier.
Gaussian 15y ago
I think we need a case study on the core competencies of the author's point structure. Maybe we can re-org. Big value-add there.
- waterside81 15y ago
  Ha, I don't know if I should laugh or cry because students in my school actually DID talk like that! The buzzword soup that MBAs pick up is definitely one of the weaker elements of the program on the whole. I've had professors admit that they want their students to learn these terms ("paradigm shift" is my favourite) so that they can "sound smart at cocktail parties"
JVerstry 15y ago
Those are not 'lies of' business schools. Those are false beliefs about business schools, which is different.
endtime 15y ago
>However, you have to realize that if you’re getting an Ivy League MBA, you’re probably 10x more susceptible to the previous 9 lies than other MBAs. Don’t let yourself be the next Jeff Skilling, the smart Harvard MBA, who worked at McKinsey and then went to Enron and drove the company off a cliff. He had a golden resume – and where did it get him? Is this really the kind of reasoning they teach in business school?
- localhost3000 15y ago
  you were being ironic, right?
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- comatose_kid 15y ago
  I think each item in the list was a fallacy; in other words, for point 7, the author was stating that the "soft" courses are important.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
mcfunley 15y ago
> You’ve probably worked at companies were people who’ve been there for 2 decades ... 11. You know how to proofread.
- jacques_chester 15y ago
  12. Dictated but not read.
redwood 15y ago
I'm genuinely considering business school because I feel like the "jack of all trades" type and generally the type who encourages others to do their best work, builds bridges, helps facilitate collaboration etc. I do wonder if the B-school route is just the cop-out for me because it plays to my existing strengths, and let's me boost the resume without being on the corporate treadmill for a few years. Would love to hear from others who've got MBAs on here. The coding community is generally negative about MBAs, but does anyone on here have any advise? Are technology-management-focused MBA programs ever any different?
- waterside81 15y ago
  If you've got the money and the time, I say do it. It'll help your people-skills - not because they teach you how to manage people, but because you'll be doing lots of group work with people from different age groups, social status', ethnic backgrounds, and professional backgrounds. It's a real challenge to work with so many different types of people.
  - redwood 15y ago
    Thanks, I would suggest that people skills are already my number one talent. But then that doesn't mean I shouldn't work on further optimizing those skills does it?
- SkyMarshal 15y ago
  >"jack of all trades" type and generally the type who encourages others to do their best work, builds bridges, helps facilitate collaboration etc. Sounds like you may be a glue guy. Good writeups on glue guys in sports: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5308513/ce/us/david-vanole-esophagus-saved-us-soccer&cc=5901?ver=us http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5308513/ce... http://www.google.com/search?q=glue+guy+grant+hill http://www.google.com/search?q=glue+guy+grant+hill (can't find the actual article, but there was a good one on Grant Hill and how he changes game stats) Biggest problem may be that that role seems more needed in a sports team or the military than a tech business.
waterside81 15y ago
Let me be a data point. I have a BSc in Comp Sci, run my own company(ies), and did my MBA at a "good" school (Schulich School of Business). Here's, in my opinion, THE best takeaway a technically minded person gets from an MBA: there are people in this world who don't think like you, don't solve problems like you, and don't have the same interests, but you're often working shoulder to shoulder with them so best you learn how to deal with them. MBA projects are more often than not group work and in your group you'll have a marketing person, a financial expert, an electrical engineer, and maybe a teacher who wants to change careers. It's like herding cats sometimes to get people on the same page, not because they're dumber or slower than you, the Python wiz, but because they're used to solving problems differently. For me, this was the best part of my MBA. I really improved my sensitivity to others' understanding of issues and became more "personable".
- jacques_chester 15y ago
  Good point. However, I feel that I obtained a similar education in teamwork by working odd jobs throughout my law and computer science studies.
cateye 15y ago
The strange thing about MBA's is not the fallacies but the currently attached value to the MBA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value
known 15y ago
You need MBA to prevail in globalization.

59 points by krat0sprakhar 15y ago

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

Some of the lies are dangerous to even teach. For example: http://www.bnet.com/tb/1-48891?tag=content;talkback http://www.bnet.com/tb/1-48891?tag=content;talkback

alexro 15y ago

I dunno if MBAs can be so high about themselves, but I will start giving even less credit them now.

FrancescoRizzi 15y ago

Missing from the list "9 pregnant women in a room for 1 month will produce a baby"

ThomPete 15y ago
I don't know why you got down voted. This is actually a very relevant comment despite it's character. Anyone working on big projects with a client can testify to this.
- FrancescoRizzi 15y ago
  Thanks. I guess someone felt I was being caustic (which, well, I was). Indeed this is one of the recurring problems we've faced in large projects and "we" always wonder if it's something "they" learn in Business School, so I was expecting it to be on the list. Anyways, I'm sure I'm over-simplifying and the issue runs deeper than the academic background.

jsherry 15y ago

Most of the author's points have some merit. However, just to balance the argument out a bit, here are a few truths of the MBA: 1. If you want to become a Goldman (or similar caliber) I-banker or work at a top flight consulting firm, a top MBA is the way to go. Yes there are other ways to get these jobs, but the recruiting processes for these firms are highly targeted and organized when it comes to hiring people from prestigious MBA programs. It truly is the path of least resistance. And if you truly set your mind to becoming employed by one of these firms, you can likely attain it once admitted to a top business school. We can argue the merits of joining one of these companies, but that's another argument entirely. 2. If you go work at said type of firm, your employment options thereafter are wide open. I don't have statistics to back this up, but having worked in corporate for a healthy portion of my career, Goldman and McKinsey candidates were often ear-marked for positions that they applied for. 3. The MBA is good for "career changers". Assuming you want to go the corporate route, an MBA is a very versatile degree. If from a top school, it practically forgives whatever you were doing before the MBA and enables you to transition into something largely unrelated if that's your wish. You need to do a whole lot of networking and build your story to make this happen, but with two years to do so, there's plenty of time. And the fact of the matter is that, regardless of how you regard MBAS, plenty of highly regarded corporates (including Google!) formally plug into the recruiting process at top schools. EDIT: I understand many of the arguments above may not apply to the HN community as it skews entrepreneurial and perhaps academic, but I believe they have merit nonetheless.

ThomPete 15y ago
I think you are right but I don't think the OP is refuting that. The problem with MBAs IMO is that they teach you "play the game" more than they teach you to be better at doing business.
- asdkl234890 15y ago
  Ah but doing better at business is only important if you care more about creating new things than gating paid a lot. If, on the other hand, you are in it for power and money, being better at "playing the game" is where money and power will come from faster and easier.

Gaussian 15y ago

I think we need a case study on the core competencies of the author's point structure. Maybe we can re-org. Big value-add there.

waterside81 15y ago
Ha, I don't know if I should laugh or cry because students in my school actually DID talk like that! The buzzword soup that MBAs pick up is definitely one of the weaker elements of the program on the whole. I've had professors admit that they want their students to learn these terms ("paradigm shift" is my favourite) so that they can "sound smart at cocktail parties"

JVerstry 15y ago

Those are not 'lies of' business schools. Those are false beliefs about business schools, which is different.

endtime 15y ago

>However, you have to realize that if you’re getting an Ivy League MBA, you’re probably 10x more susceptible to the previous 9 lies than other MBAs. Don’t let yourself be the next Jeff Skilling, the smart Harvard MBA, who worked at McKinsey and then went to Enron and drove the company off a cliff. He had a golden resume – and where did it get him? Is this really the kind of reasoning they teach in business school?

localhost3000 15y ago
you were being ironic, right?

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

comatose_kid 15y ago
I think each item in the list was a fallacy; in other words, for point 7, the author was stating that the "soft" courses are important.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

mcfunley 15y ago

> You’ve probably worked at companies were people who’ve been there for 2 decades ... 11. You know how to proofread.

jacques_chester 15y ago
12. Dictated but not read.

redwood 15y ago

I'm genuinely considering business school because I feel like the "jack of all trades" type and generally the type who encourages others to do their best work, builds bridges, helps facilitate collaboration etc. I do wonder if the B-school route is just the cop-out for me because it plays to my existing strengths, and let's me boost the resume without being on the corporate treadmill for a few years. Would love to hear from others who've got MBAs on here. The coding community is generally negative about MBAs, but does anyone on here have any advise? Are technology-management-focused MBA programs ever any different?

waterside81 15y ago
If you've got the money and the time, I say do it. It'll help your people-skills - not because they teach you how to manage people, but because you'll be doing lots of group work with people from different age groups, social status', ethnic backgrounds, and professional backgrounds. It's a real challenge to work with so many different types of people.
- redwood 15y ago
  Thanks, I would suggest that people skills are already my number one talent. But then that doesn't mean I shouldn't work on further optimizing those skills does it?
SkyMarshal 15y ago
>"jack of all trades" type and generally the type who encourages others to do their best work, builds bridges, helps facilitate collaboration etc. Sounds like you may be a glue guy. Good writeups on glue guys in sports: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5308513/ce/us/david-vanole-esophagus-saved-us-soccer&cc=5901?ver=us http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5308513/ce... http://www.google.com/search?q=glue+guy+grant+hill http://www.google.com/search?q=glue+guy+grant+hill (can't find the actual article, but there was a good one on Grant Hill and how he changes game stats) Biggest problem may be that that role seems more needed in a sports team or the military than a tech business.

waterside81 15y ago

Let me be a data point. I have a BSc in Comp Sci, run my own company(ies), and did my MBA at a "good" school (Schulich School of Business). Here's, in my opinion, THE best takeaway a technically minded person gets from an MBA: there are people in this world who don't think like you, don't solve problems like you, and don't have the same interests, but you're often working shoulder to shoulder with them so best you learn how to deal with them. MBA projects are more often than not group work and in your group you'll have a marketing person, a financial expert, an electrical engineer, and maybe a teacher who wants to change careers. It's like herding cats sometimes to get people on the same page, not because they're dumber or slower than you, the Python wiz, but because they're used to solving problems differently. For me, this was the best part of my MBA. I really improved my sensitivity to others' understanding of issues and became more "personable".

jacques_chester 15y ago
Good point. However, I feel that I obtained a similar education in teamwork by working odd jobs throughout my law and computer science studies.

cateye 15y ago

The strange thing about MBA's is not the fallacies but the currently attached value to the MBA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value

known 15y ago

You need MBA to prevail in globalization.