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The unpopular truth is that fossil fuels are far too cheap. If the negative externalities were priced in, they would be at least twice as expensive, perhaps as

The unpopular truth is that fossil fuels are far too cheap. If the negative externalities were priced in, they would be at least twice as expensive, perhaps as much as ten times.

xondono 5y ago
> If the negative externalities were priced in they would be at least twice as expensive Quotation needed
- piva00 5y ago
  Here's a source for a recent meta-analysis of hidden costs of fossil fuels [1]. Findings on the abstract already corroborate the parent comment. [1] "The hidden costs of energy and mobility: A global meta-analysis and research synthesis of electricity and transport externalities" - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214629620304606 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221462962...
  - xondono 5y ago
    The problem with this type of study is that it can by definition only cover the known externalities, but most of the price of externalities is far into the future. This means that the real margin of error is huge (and unknowable at this time).
    - akimball 5y ago
      Also it misprices tail risk, marking it to zero
- pdoege 5y ago
  For coal in the USA the stated cost for MWh in 2010 was $41. The external cost was $58. This does not include for implicit and explicit subsidies. Including those would make the external costs higher. The numbers change by country, time, energy source, and etc. so asking for a quotation is a bit of a fishing expedition. See Tables 1 and 2 at: https://www.climateadvisers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/2011-10-The-Social-Cost-of-Coal.pdf https://www.climateadvisers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/2... If you have the spare time to read 507 pages of support, please see: https://www.nap.edu/download/12794 https://www.nap.edu/download/12794
- eutropia 5y ago
  Current carbon capture tech charges about $500/ton (but this number is bound to get lower) of CO2, given the CO2 produced per KWh of Natural gas is 0.41kg/KWh, that adds about $0.20 per KWh to your electricity bill. Where I’m from, our mostly natural gas electric company charges $0.10/kwh. So adding $0.20 does indeed do more than double it (for now). [1] https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=74&t=11 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=74&t=11

The unpopular truth is that fossil fuels are far too cheap. If the negative externalities were priced in, they would be at least twice as expensive, perhaps as much as ten times.

xondono 5y ago

> If the negative externalities were priced in they would be at least twice as expensive Quotation needed

piva00 5y ago
Here's a source for a recent meta-analysis of hidden costs of fossil fuels [1]. Findings on the abstract already corroborate the parent comment. [1] "The hidden costs of energy and mobility: A global meta-analysis and research synthesis of electricity and transport externalities" - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214629620304606 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221462962...
- xondono 5y ago
  The problem with this type of study is that it can by definition only cover the known externalities, but most of the price of externalities is far into the future. This means that the real margin of error is huge (and unknowable at this time).
  - akimball 5y ago
    Also it misprices tail risk, marking it to zero
pdoege 5y ago
For coal in the USA the stated cost for MWh in 2010 was $41. The external cost was $58. This does not include for implicit and explicit subsidies. Including those would make the external costs higher. The numbers change by country, time, energy source, and etc. so asking for a quotation is a bit of a fishing expedition. See Tables 1 and 2 at: https://www.climateadvisers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/2011-10-The-Social-Cost-of-Coal.pdf https://www.climateadvisers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/2... If you have the spare time to read 507 pages of support, please see: https://www.nap.edu/download/12794 https://www.nap.edu/download/12794
eutropia 5y ago
Current carbon capture tech charges about $500/ton (but this number is bound to get lower) of CO2, given the CO2 produced per KWh of Natural gas is 0.41kg/KWh, that adds about $0.20 per KWh to your electricity bill. Where I’m from, our mostly natural gas electric company charges $0.10/kwh. So adding $0.20 does indeed do more than double it (for now). [1] https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=74&t=11 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=74&t=11