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It is too convenient for a ruling family to have the mandate of the one true God. They are flesh and blood with DNA, diseases, and all of the other problems of

It is too convenient for a ruling family to have the mandate of the one true God. They are flesh and blood with DNA, diseases, and all of the other problems of humanity. But I won’t tell you what to believe. My view is that these are just people, and if they weren’t, where are their magical powers? And if they have no such powers, even if they were divine, would it matter?

adolph 5y ago
Ok, you don't know one way or another. I'd agree that a safe assumption is that family members are not descended from a supernatural being. On the other hand, your assertion does not address any specific supporting evidence the family might muster. It would be helpful to support your counterclaim with information specific to Japanese beliefs and practices. For example, you state that the imperial family "are flesh and blood with DNA, diseases, and all of the other problems of humanity," presumably as a counter to the family's claim of supernatural origin. But does that really contradict their claim? For example, in some Christian mythologies the Jesus character was at the same time the son of the central deity as well as being the central deity and at the same time born from a non-supernatural mother. Have the Japanese imperial family claimed that they are not "flesh and blood with DNA, diseases, and all of the other problems of humanity?" Have they claimed "magical powers?" I don't know and you have not established these as claims about which to offer counterclaims. My understanding is that this form of rhetoric is known as "strawman."
- westcort 5y ago
  Their “divine” power comes from belief in such power by the people they rule. Without that, they are the real straw man. And that is what they are, figureheads and cultural tokens. It’s not good for the Japanese people and it is not good for the figureheads themselves. There is one miracle I would fairly attribute to the royal family, though, and that is ending WWII. It was not a supernatural, though, just rarely exercised authority that came from belief. Beyond that, there is no magic involved. I would also argue that the artifacts supposedly from the sun god look about like what you would expect from a good artisan a few thousand years ago. If they were advanced technology, I might give it a second thought. Lacking magic, authority, and power, what is left is a quaint memento of a long-gone past. That is what royal families are—-nothing more.
  - adolph 5y ago
    Ok, it sounds like you don't have a specific claim on the part of the Japanese imperial family to falsify. Now there is an additional claim that belief in such power is not good for the Japanese people. Japan as a nation seems to have done pretty well for itself. If belief in a supernatural power is present in a society that seems otherwise well-adapted evolutionarily, what is "not good" about it? Maybe they would do better without it? How would that claim be different from a claim that they might have done worse without it?
    - westcort 5y ago
      Not divine. Not relevant.
      - adolph 5y ago
        I appreciate not agreeing with a claim of divinity in that it is unfalsible, but to claim something is false without offering evidence is just as much a naked assertion as the original claim. As to the relevance of the imperial family in Japanese society the fact that they are being discussed is a variety of relevance if only in the same manner as reality television or professional sports. For some reason the story of the Babel fish comes to mind. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/35681-now-it-is-such-a-bizarrely-improbable-coincidence-that-anything https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/35681-now-it-is-such-a-biza...

adolph 5y ago

Ok, you don't know one way or another. I'd agree that a safe assumption is that family members are not descended from a supernatural being. On the other hand, your assertion does not address any specific supporting evidence the family might muster. It would be helpful to support your counterclaim with information specific to Japanese beliefs and practices. For example, you state that the imperial family "are flesh and blood with DNA, diseases, and all of the other problems of humanity," presumably as a counter to the family's claim of supernatural origin. But does that really contradict their claim? For example, in some Christian mythologies the Jesus character was at the same time the son of the central deity as well as being the central deity and at the same time born from a non-supernatural mother. Have the Japanese imperial family claimed that they are not "flesh and blood with DNA, diseases, and all of the other problems of humanity?" Have they claimed "magical powers?" I don't know and you have not established these as claims about which to offer counterclaims. My understanding is that this form of rhetoric is known as "strawman."

westcort 5y ago
Their “divine” power comes from belief in such power by the people they rule. Without that, they are the real straw man. And that is what they are, figureheads and cultural tokens. It’s not good for the Japanese people and it is not good for the figureheads themselves. There is one miracle I would fairly attribute to the royal family, though, and that is ending WWII. It was not a supernatural, though, just rarely exercised authority that came from belief. Beyond that, there is no magic involved. I would also argue that the artifacts supposedly from the sun god look about like what you would expect from a good artisan a few thousand years ago. If they were advanced technology, I might give it a second thought. Lacking magic, authority, and power, what is left is a quaint memento of a long-gone past. That is what royal families are—-nothing more.
- adolph 5y ago
  Ok, it sounds like you don't have a specific claim on the part of the Japanese imperial family to falsify. Now there is an additional claim that belief in such power is not good for the Japanese people. Japan as a nation seems to have done pretty well for itself. If belief in a supernatural power is present in a society that seems otherwise well-adapted evolutionarily, what is "not good" about it? Maybe they would do better without it? How would that claim be different from a claim that they might have done worse without it?
  - westcort 5y ago
    Not divine. Not relevant.
    - adolph 5y ago
      I appreciate not agreeing with a claim of divinity in that it is unfalsible, but to claim something is false without offering evidence is just as much a naked assertion as the original claim. As to the relevance of the imperial family in Japanese society the fact that they are being discussed is a variety of relevance if only in the same manner as reality television or professional sports. For some reason the story of the Babel fish comes to mind. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/35681-now-it-is-such-a-bizarrely-improbable-coincidence-that-anything https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/35681-now-it-is-such-a-biza...