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Fauci (and the CDC) lying about masks out of fear it would cause a shortage for healthcare providers burnt a lot of trust quickly. It probably helped the US get

Fauci (and the CDC) lying about masks out of fear it would cause a shortage for healthcare providers burnt a lot of trust quickly. It probably helped the US get into the polarized situation it's in now.

nobody9999 5y ago
>Fauci (and the CDC) lying about masks out of fear it would cause a shortage for healthcare providers burnt a lot of trust quickly. It probably helped the US get into the polarized situation it's in now. This confuses me. If the claim that masks "don't work" caused folks to distrust public health authorities, then why are many of the folks who claim to distrust those PH authorities refusing to wear masks?
- d23 5y ago
  This thread is full of bizarre, depressing contradictions. I'm having trouble processing that this many people in this community think this way.
- joshuaissac 5y ago
  Because once they lose their credibility, everything they say will be viewed with distrust. > If the claim that masks "don't work" caused folks to distrust public health authorities I would say it is more the contradictory messaging that caused the distrust, than the initial claim that masks do not work.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >I would say it is more the backtracking that caused the distrust. And so, if I say "gravity does not exist" and then turn around and say that the effect we call "gravity" accelerates matter at 9.8 meters per second per second, that means "the effect we call gravity" doesn't exist? That's a strange way to look at it, IMHO.
    - themaninthedark 5y ago
      If you claim that gravity does not exist, then turn around and say that the effect we call "gravity" accelerates matter at 9.8 meters per second per second. Then you go and claim that magnetism does not exist, I will probably not believe you.
      - nobody9999 5y ago
        >If you claim that gravity does not exist, then turn around and say that the effect we call "gravity" accelerates matter at 9.8 meters per second per second. >Then you go and claim that magnetism does not exist, I will probably not believe you. Fair enough. Now apply that reasoning to my original statement. If public health authorities claim that masks don't work, and that's a lie, then they say they do, that's a lie too? That's the root of my confusion. Given that those two statements are not just mutually exclusive, but also completely contradictory, they obviously can't both be false. And as many folks call out the statement about masks not working as a lie, how does it follow that those same people refuse to wear masks because they "distrust" the messenger. If the messenger is lying about "masks not working," how is it reasonable to reject wearing masks because they lied about masks not working?
        themaninthedark 5y ago
        I am not sure of anyone who was on the mask bandwagon but then got off when the government approved them. Not saying that they don't exist. The problem is it is not just the health officials, you have the media and politicians also all trying to play doctor but also not following their own advice. And it does not matter that it is only a couple people that have done so, due to the way people group those couple are all it takes. To look at an older example of this: Look at how the religious right community is treated when it comes to morals. You probably don't believe them. Why? Not because Sally and John in Minnesota or even the most of the people in the leadership. No, you don't believe them because that one guy who was caught solicitating gay sex in the airport. Or the one guy who was cheating on his wife.
        5y ago
Covzire 5y ago
Fauci ostensibly being directly involved in the creation of COVID19 via gain of function research, and not seeing him prosecuted or at least fired is also keeping trust incredibly low. Everyone knows what the guy did, said and does and stands for. Every time he goes on CNN he sows distrust.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  I won't go as far as him being prosecuted, but yes, he was uncomfortably involved in it, and didn't call out how bad of an idea it is. Edit: Biden should have fired him when he became president ostensibly for lying, but actually because he's a polarizing figure who makes too many TV appearances. It doesn't matter that he's saying the right thing about the vaccines, when 40% of people don't trust him, he's the wrong messenger. When the tech industry does a lot of self-reflection on what harm could come from various forms of AI, I'm honestly shocked that biologists are modifying viruses in ways that could be so disruptive (at best) that are just a few mistakes away from a pandemic.
gojomo 5y ago
Also Fauci in early March 2020 mocking the idea of people changing their travel plans as an overreaction. Also Fauci shooting-down lab-origin theories in public, while his private emails – still heavily redacted! – imply contemporaneous discussion of such an origin as a serious possibility. Also Fauci misestimating a vaccine as at least a year and half away. Also Fauci helping to fluff Trump's lowball estimates of the pandemic ending by summer 2020 with "more like the 60k" dead. (Only off by 12x, and still growing!) Also Fauci overclaiming the rushed EUA 3wk/4wk mRNA vax dose spacings as 'optimal' & important not-to-delay... when precedent from other vaccines was that 8wks or longer is better for stronger & more durable immunity. (Data from other countries with wiser spacing has now confirmed, as true experts would have expected, that longer spacing is better. So the insistence of Fauci/CDC on rushed 2nd doses now leaving vaccinated Americans with more, and more severe, breakthrough infections.)
- angelzen 5y ago
  Whatever you think of Fauci, he's amazingly well connected in elite circles. To the point he has people making fawning movies about his life and career. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fauci https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fauci
  - gojomo 5y ago
    Indeed, Fauci has the magic touch of the 'cooler', the person in a con who keeps the mark from getting angry. Everything Fauci's said, at every phase of this pandemic, has been optimized not to save lives or be truthful, but to excuse whatever actions, or inactions, the federal government has taken as "the best possible at the time". The doctor schtick, plus the gravelly NYC accent, is a powerful combo. There's a reason he's the highest-paid employee in the whole federal government!
  - rob_c 5y ago
    I'm dreading the one about professor fergusson "professor lockdown" in the UK... him getting caught having a fling during the first UK lockdown breaking the new laws probably will help us not have to suffer through that BBC special...
AzzieElbab 5y ago
Hospitals dont buy masks at COSCO stores and neither does the gov.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  But where do the stores buy masks, hm?
  - AzzieElbab 5y ago
    wouldn't it be easy for a competent government to identify and control maks suppliers? btw, here in Canada, most notable ppe hoarders were shipping it to China
    - whimsicalism 5y ago
      Not the US government, which gives massive deference to private actors. It would take weeks if not months to do something like that at the federal level, our government doesn't move fast.
      - AzzieElbab 5y ago
        They had weeks if not months

nobody9999 5y ago

>Fauci (and the CDC) lying about masks out of fear it would cause a shortage for healthcare providers burnt a lot of trust quickly. It probably helped the US get into the polarized situation it's in now. This confuses me. If the claim that masks "don't work" caused folks to distrust public health authorities, then why are many of the folks who claim to distrust those PH authorities refusing to wear masks?

d23 5y ago
This thread is full of bizarre, depressing contradictions. I'm having trouble processing that this many people in this community think this way.
joshuaissac 5y ago
Because once they lose their credibility, everything they say will be viewed with distrust. > If the claim that masks "don't work" caused folks to distrust public health authorities I would say it is more the contradictory messaging that caused the distrust, than the initial claim that masks do not work.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >I would say it is more the backtracking that caused the distrust. And so, if I say "gravity does not exist" and then turn around and say that the effect we call "gravity" accelerates matter at 9.8 meters per second per second, that means "the effect we call gravity" doesn't exist? That's a strange way to look at it, IMHO.
  - themaninthedark 5y ago
    If you claim that gravity does not exist, then turn around and say that the effect we call "gravity" accelerates matter at 9.8 meters per second per second. Then you go and claim that magnetism does not exist, I will probably not believe you.
    - nobody9999 5y ago
      >If you claim that gravity does not exist, then turn around and say that the effect we call "gravity" accelerates matter at 9.8 meters per second per second. >Then you go and claim that magnetism does not exist, I will probably not believe you. Fair enough. Now apply that reasoning to my original statement. If public health authorities claim that masks don't work, and that's a lie, then they say they do, that's a lie too? That's the root of my confusion. Given that those two statements are not just mutually exclusive, but also completely contradictory, they obviously can't both be false. And as many folks call out the statement about masks not working as a lie, how does it follow that those same people refuse to wear masks because they "distrust" the messenger. If the messenger is lying about "masks not working," how is it reasonable to reject wearing masks because they lied about masks not working?
      - themaninthedark 5y ago
        I am not sure of anyone who was on the mask bandwagon but then got off when the government approved them. Not saying that they don't exist. The problem is it is not just the health officials, you have the media and politicians also all trying to play doctor but also not following their own advice. And it does not matter that it is only a couple people that have done so, due to the way people group those couple are all it takes. To look at an older example of this: Look at how the religious right community is treated when it comes to morals. You probably don't believe them. Why? Not because Sally and John in Minnesota or even the most of the people in the leadership. No, you don't believe them because that one guy who was caught solicitating gay sex in the airport. Or the one guy who was cheating on his wife.
        5y ago

Covzire 5y ago

Fauci ostensibly being directly involved in the creation of COVID19 via gain of function research, and not seeing him prosecuted or at least fired is also keeping trust incredibly low. Everyone knows what the guy did, said and does and stands for. Every time he goes on CNN he sows distrust.

dehrmann 5y ago
I won't go as far as him being prosecuted, but yes, he was uncomfortably involved in it, and didn't call out how bad of an idea it is. Edit: Biden should have fired him when he became president ostensibly for lying, but actually because he's a polarizing figure who makes too many TV appearances. It doesn't matter that he's saying the right thing about the vaccines, when 40% of people don't trust him, he's the wrong messenger. When the tech industry does a lot of self-reflection on what harm could come from various forms of AI, I'm honestly shocked that biologists are modifying viruses in ways that could be so disruptive (at best) that are just a few mistakes away from a pandemic.

gojomo 5y ago

Also Fauci in early March 2020 mocking the idea of people changing their travel plans as an overreaction. Also Fauci shooting-down lab-origin theories in public, while his private emails – still heavily redacted! – imply contemporaneous discussion of such an origin as a serious possibility. Also Fauci misestimating a vaccine as at least a year and half away. Also Fauci helping to fluff Trump's lowball estimates of the pandemic ending by summer 2020 with "more like the 60k" dead. (Only off by 12x, and still growing!) Also Fauci overclaiming the rushed EUA 3wk/4wk mRNA vax dose spacings as 'optimal' & important not-to-delay... when precedent from other vaccines was that 8wks or longer is better for stronger & more durable immunity. (Data from other countries with wiser spacing has now confirmed, as true experts would have expected, that longer spacing is better. So the insistence of Fauci/CDC on rushed 2nd doses now leaving vaccinated Americans with more, and more severe, breakthrough infections.)

angelzen 5y ago
Whatever you think of Fauci, he's amazingly well connected in elite circles. To the point he has people making fawning movies about his life and career. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fauci https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fauci
- gojomo 5y ago
  Indeed, Fauci has the magic touch of the 'cooler', the person in a con who keeps the mark from getting angry. Everything Fauci's said, at every phase of this pandemic, has been optimized not to save lives or be truthful, but to excuse whatever actions, or inactions, the federal government has taken as "the best possible at the time". The doctor schtick, plus the gravelly NYC accent, is a powerful combo. There's a reason he's the highest-paid employee in the whole federal government!
- rob_c 5y ago
  I'm dreading the one about professor fergusson "professor lockdown" in the UK... him getting caught having a fling during the first UK lockdown breaking the new laws probably will help us not have to suffer through that BBC special...

AzzieElbab 5y ago

Hospitals dont buy masks at COSCO stores and neither does the gov.

whimsicalism 5y ago
But where do the stores buy masks, hm?
- AzzieElbab 5y ago
  wouldn't it be easy for a competent government to identify and control maks suppliers? btw, here in Canada, most notable ppe hoarders were shipping it to China
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    Not the US government, which gives massive deference to private actors. It would take weeks if not months to do something like that at the federal level, our government doesn't move fast.
    - AzzieElbab 5y ago
      They had weeks if not months