4 ms·

It feels like a game of political chicken to me. Like, "if you won't trust the voting public enough to give them the whole truth and instead treat them like bl

by mmmpop 5y ago

It feels like a game of political chicken to me. Like, "if you won't trust the voting public enough to give them the whole truth and instead treat them like blubbering fools, how can you--with a straight face--pretend that their ability to pick leaders or vote on actual issues is a correct way to run a country?" So instead of compliance, they'll bring the whole damn thing down in protest. I don't think the plurality of those who refuse the vaccine actively deny the existence of the virus, or even the efficacy and safety of the vaccine. I feel they're just absolutely sick of the hypocrisy and pandering by "leaders" who refuse to lead by example on much of anything. As many before me have said, you'll always have the kooks that deny science but I honest-to-God think those are the minority.

skyde 5y ago
the general public are not the one that decide who get a Phd or MD the expert are the one doing it. It make sense that the expert don't trust the general public with health decision. If you are not convinced just head over to https://www.youtube.com/c/ChubbyemuGames/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/ChubbyemuGames/videos
- mmmpop 5y ago
  Maybe the general public should spend more time electing MDs and PhDs to run the government then? Instead we get bullshitters and grifters who defer to life-long bureaucrats with an MD of a PhD who suck-up to the right people to get the job, regardless of their actual competence. People tend to mistrust government "experts" because the feeling is that if they were better at their jobs, they'd obviously be in the private sector. This isn't always true but many people feel that way, like it or not.
  - angelzen 5y ago
    There are a a dozen and a half physicians in Congress. Their political affiliation may be surprising. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicians_in_the_United_States_Congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicians_in_the_United_State...
    - mmmpop 5y ago
      I knew it already, but wouldn't be surprised. One party appeals to emotion and hides the abject corruption. The other appeals more to reason (and for better or worse, Jesus) but is a bit more frank about their objectives and corruption.
      - lovecg 5y ago
        This characterization is so alien to me. If you didn’t mention Jesus I would have no idea which is which. Wondering why you think that way?
  - betterunix2 5y ago
    People tend to mistrust government experts when politicians tell them to mistrust government experts. Republicans who say they do not trust the CDC on COVID have no such doubts about the DEA, whose decisions on drug policy are just blindly trusted, simply because Republican leaders have told everyone not to trust the CDC. People do not simply draw their own conclusions; like it or not, everyone is influenced by the people around them and people tend to line up behind their leaders.
  - skyde 5y ago
    why do we need Phd and MD "inside" the government ? Instead the government can just ask normal PHd and MD working for the private sector or for university for their opinion. I 100% understand why people dont trust an MD which is affiliated with a specific Political Party. If you want expert to be neutral (no political) they can't be part of the government.
MattGaiser 5y ago
> how can you--with a straight face--pretend that their ability to pick leaders or vote on actual issues is a correct way to run a country?" By arguing that the other options are worse. Democracy and the separation of powers do not result in great decision making. But it also serves as a significant barrier against absolutely horrible decision making, placing it above the other choices.
- mmmpop 5y ago
  What separation of power? The country is run by executive fiat and every 4 years the law of the land takes an about face when the next guy comes along to rip up the old guy's diktats. The US legislative branch is kabuki theater and the judicial branch is disgustingly partisan.
  - joncrane 5y ago
    What are you doing about it?
    - mmmpop 5y ago
      Uhhh, voting? What the hell else is there to do, write to my crooked senator? Tweet to the ether about my woes? Some people decided to vote for some asshole business guy because it was at least something new and different, but that didn't go over so well.
  - Loughla 5y ago
    That is really flippant and cynical sounding, but you're right. Seriously. What was the last, actual, substantive piece of legislation to come out of the legislature? I work in higher education, and a new higher education act has been just over the horizon since what, 1999? Nothing changes, except that which can be changed via executive order, or can be sued and changed in well-established and forecasted voting patterns via the judiciary.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    Executive orders only allow decisions within the scope of existing laws. So you can move enforcement resources around to prioritize certain things, direct the military to hit different targets, etc. But the executive branch can't just stand up a new daycare program. In plenty of other countries, a change in party control leads to wild changes. Not in the USA. And whether the legislative branch is theatrical and the judicial branch partisan has nothing to do with the separation of powers. Ok, so they may not work all that well. They are still constrained significantly by each other.
jnorthrop 5y ago
> If you won't trust the voting public enough to give them the whole truth and instead treat them like blubbering fools, how can you--with a straight face--pretend that their ability to pick leaders or vote on actual issues is a correct way to run a country? Mr. Politician replies, "I trust the individuals that voted for me. They're smart. Its the public in general that can't be trusted."

by mmmpop 5y ago

skyde 5y ago

the general public are not the one that decide who get a Phd or MD the expert are the one doing it. It make sense that the expert don't trust the general public with health decision. If you are not convinced just head over to https://www.youtube.com/c/ChubbyemuGames/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/ChubbyemuGames/videos

mmmpop 5y ago
Maybe the general public should spend more time electing MDs and PhDs to run the government then? Instead we get bullshitters and grifters who defer to life-long bureaucrats with an MD of a PhD who suck-up to the right people to get the job, regardless of their actual competence. People tend to mistrust government "experts" because the feeling is that if they were better at their jobs, they'd obviously be in the private sector. This isn't always true but many people feel that way, like it or not.
- angelzen 5y ago
  There are a a dozen and a half physicians in Congress. Their political affiliation may be surprising. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicians_in_the_United_States_Congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicians_in_the_United_State...
  - mmmpop 5y ago
    I knew it already, but wouldn't be surprised. One party appeals to emotion and hides the abject corruption. The other appeals more to reason (and for better or worse, Jesus) but is a bit more frank about their objectives and corruption.
    - lovecg 5y ago
      This characterization is so alien to me. If you didn’t mention Jesus I would have no idea which is which. Wondering why you think that way?
- betterunix2 5y ago
  People tend to mistrust government experts when politicians tell them to mistrust government experts. Republicans who say they do not trust the CDC on COVID have no such doubts about the DEA, whose decisions on drug policy are just blindly trusted, simply because Republican leaders have told everyone not to trust the CDC. People do not simply draw their own conclusions; like it or not, everyone is influenced by the people around them and people tend to line up behind their leaders.
- skyde 5y ago
  why do we need Phd and MD "inside" the government ? Instead the government can just ask normal PHd and MD working for the private sector or for university for their opinion. I 100% understand why people dont trust an MD which is affiliated with a specific Political Party. If you want expert to be neutral (no political) they can't be part of the government.

MattGaiser 5y ago

> how can you--with a straight face--pretend that their ability to pick leaders or vote on actual issues is a correct way to run a country?" By arguing that the other options are worse. Democracy and the separation of powers do not result in great decision making. But it also serves as a significant barrier against absolutely horrible decision making, placing it above the other choices.

mmmpop 5y ago
What separation of power? The country is run by executive fiat and every 4 years the law of the land takes an about face when the next guy comes along to rip up the old guy's diktats. The US legislative branch is kabuki theater and the judicial branch is disgustingly partisan.
- joncrane 5y ago
  What are you doing about it?
  - mmmpop 5y ago
    Uhhh, voting? What the hell else is there to do, write to my crooked senator? Tweet to the ether about my woes? Some people decided to vote for some asshole business guy because it was at least something new and different, but that didn't go over so well.
- Loughla 5y ago
  That is really flippant and cynical sounding, but you're right. Seriously. What was the last, actual, substantive piece of legislation to come out of the legislature? I work in higher education, and a new higher education act has been just over the horizon since what, 1999? Nothing changes, except that which can be changed via executive order, or can be sued and changed in well-established and forecasted voting patterns via the judiciary.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  Executive orders only allow decisions within the scope of existing laws. So you can move enforcement resources around to prioritize certain things, direct the military to hit different targets, etc. But the executive branch can't just stand up a new daycare program. In plenty of other countries, a change in party control leads to wild changes. Not in the USA. And whether the legislative branch is theatrical and the judicial branch partisan has nothing to do with the separation of powers. Ok, so they may not work all that well. They are still constrained significantly by each other.

jnorthrop 5y ago

> If you won't trust the voting public enough to give them the whole truth and instead treat them like blubbering fools, how can you--with a straight face--pretend that their ability to pick leaders or vote on actual issues is a correct way to run a country? Mr. Politician replies, "I trust the individuals that voted for me. They're smart. Its the public in general that can't be trusted."