6 ms·

Best Buy’s new $200/yr membership locks PS5, hot holiday items behind membership

25 points by feross 5y ago

dmitrygr 5y ago
This is both clever and stupid on their part. Clever because they get to scalp without calling it such. Stupid because everyone will see this and lose them whatever goodwill they still have, if any.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  This will be highly profitable, just crazy expensive for a service that provides no other value
cruano 5y ago
> But for anyone uninterested in support services who just wants to buy a PS5 or presumably any of the other hottest tech wares that are currently impossible to find, Best Buy's new program arguably makes it look little better than a corporate scalper. Or... you know, any membership-only retailer ? Is Sam's Club also a scalper now ? This also gets rid of the actual scalpers fighting for stuff in your store which is arguably better for everyone
- falcolas 5y ago
  Sam's Club (and Costco, etc) offers discounts on most products it sells, and costs significantly less than Best Buy's membership. They are far from equivalent cases.
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    Lots of people have Costco, it was near impossible to secure one last year from them. The site would just crash
mkmk 5y ago
One nice part about this is that it slows down the real scalpers significantly – rather than just spinning up a new IP, email address, or temporary credit card number, they now can be rate-capped by requiring a new $200/yr membership for every $n Playstations sold.
- mywittyname 5y ago
  It sounds like the subscription is a one-time, annual deal. The similar Gamestop program allows people to buy multiple PS5s. The guy I bought mine from acquired several from the same account. From what I could tell, it actually helped scalpers since they got a 1 hour early window to buy them and it took like 45mins to sell out. You were limited to 1 bundle per transaction, but he could get through multiple transactions before they sold out.
- _v7gu 5y ago
  Don't scalpers make more money than 200$/console? Only they will be buying in this case.
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    Bulk buyer pays 720-760 per console depending on market conditions. In a no tax condition this is barely profitable but I would expect to buy multiple PS5s with this and multiple graphics cards to pay it off. I expect real consumers to get screwed by this but scalpers to just adjust. All the scalpers are running the GameStop pro memberships on their bots for example. Keep in mind that real buyers don’t have much of a chance on Best Buy because the queue often gets bypassed by scalpers. Also you will still get hit by queue if you have this expensive account
- rdtwo 5y ago
  It’s a lot easier to absorb when you scalp half a dozen items on one account vs a consumer only needing one
mywittyname 5y ago
This is just a symptom of a larger problem: there aren't really good ways for retailers to do "market adjustments" upwards on products without resorting to tricks like mandatory bundling. Customers love when products are discounted, but froth at the mouth when they are marked up. Car manufactures figured out this problem by having sky-high sticker prices, then offering massive discounts. This turned out to be a smart move during the pandemic, because they could increase prices by 20% on some models by just not offering discounts. Special edition cars still suffer from ADM, which pisses people off, but in general this is a good solution. Every gaming console released in the past 20 years has had this initial price surge at launch. I really can't believe that Sony didn't just come out with an MSRP of ~$1300 at launch, and aggressively discount it as supplies grew. But I suppose they were worried about pissing consumers off, so they let scalpers take the heat off the brand, making the lost revenue is essentially a marketing/goodwill expense. I honestly think that people would have been fine if the initial MSRP was basically market-rate. People really, really, really seem to hate scalpers.
- robcohen 5y ago
  You raise some really good points. Perhaps Sony is also afraid that if the other makers don't follow suit, that they'll lose market share to the others due to unsynched releases. Car makers are expected to release new models yearly, but not so much for game systems. So if surge pricing is over with a nintendo switch but just starting with PS5, maybe the switch takes over. Perhaps people would rather compete to get a limited supply than to pay more?
  - mywittyname 5y ago
    It could be that they are afraid of a high MSRP scaring away customers. But this isn't 1993. There was clearly a market for $1000+ priced PS5s that would have lasted at least a year. The PS4, PS4 Pro, and PS5 offer a good, stratified product lineup to justify the higher prices to consumers. Plus, the Switch never really competed with the XB or PS5. Kind of like with a PC, Switch ownership compliments XB or PS5 ownership pretty well. People buy the Switch for the Nintendo games, and maybe tolerate a shitty port of a game because they can play on the go. But most people seem happy to own both.
wdb 5y ago
Oh well, a store here in London locks the ability to buy a (second) Rolex behind a minimum spend of £45k on other things. Things you want are getting harder and harder to get; while the hard-to-get stuff will exit via the backdoor onto the grey market
throw8383833jj 5y ago
if you want a PS so badly, why not get a used one or older new one on ebay or amazon: like maybe one of the previous versions PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1 or maybe another game system? it'll probably be whole lot cheaper too and you don't have to pay extra.
- IndexCardBox 5y ago
  That's like saying "If you want a new iPad why not just buy an Apple Newton?"
- bigwavedave 5y ago
  > if you want a PS so badly, why not get a used one or older new one on ebay or amazon: like maybe one of the previous versions PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1 or maybe another game system? it'll probably be whole lot cheaper too and you don't have to pay extra. Well, for several reasons you may not have considered: 1) I need you to find me a listing for a "used" ps5 that isn't broken, double the retail price of a new system, or a flat out scam. 2) You seem to be laboring under the delusion that the only reason someone would upgrade to the ps5 is for the latest and greatest hardware or to simply have a Playstation console. Instead, you should consider that there exist people like myself who hope to upgrade because of games that are exclusive to the ps5. Edit: HN formatting is the best
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    I mean you could camp targets and Twitter from 5-6 am every morning for 2-3 weeks and you would probably have a shot. Or you could pay a $150-200 fee and have someone do it for your. Or for 50-100 you could have someone run your profile on a bot. Lots of options
    - bigwavedave 5y ago
      I'm not disputing that there are options, since there certainly are- I was refuting the parent's assertion that buying a used model or one from an earlier generation are among them.
jsiepkes 5y ago
This might be a bit of a disingenuous take on it. As far as I can tell they first created the membership and then when they happened to get some (limited) PS5 stock made it a membership exclusive. I don't think it's super weird that you would give your members priority.
mikestew 5y ago
OT: so how is this not a dupe of what I submitted yesterday evening? Not that I'm complaining, I've got more points than I know what to do with, but when I submit a URL that has already been submitted, I'm redirected to the post that submitted first. AFAICT, this one is char-for-char the same URL, and the submitted title is the same. Just a question of technical curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28835960 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28835960
- dfdz 5y ago
  Well I am guessing posting on hacker news just before lunch time 11am PT is one of the good times to build momentum on a post (the time the current post was made) and I am guessing that if a previous post did not get many votes it is not counted as duplicate TLDR you posted at a non optimal time so your post didn’t count

25 points by feross 5y ago

This is both clever and stupid on their part. Clever because they get to scalp without calling it such. Stupid because everyone will see this and lose them whatever goodwill they still have, if any.

rdtwo 5y ago
This will be highly profitable, just crazy expensive for a service that provides no other value

cruano 5y ago

> But for anyone uninterested in support services who just wants to buy a PS5 or presumably any of the other hottest tech wares that are currently impossible to find, Best Buy's new program arguably makes it look little better than a corporate scalper. Or... you know, any membership-only retailer ? Is Sam's Club also a scalper now ? This also gets rid of the actual scalpers fighting for stuff in your store which is arguably better for everyone

falcolas 5y ago
Sam's Club (and Costco, etc) offers discounts on most products it sells, and costs significantly less than Best Buy's membership. They are far from equivalent cases.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  Lots of people have Costco, it was near impossible to secure one last year from them. The site would just crash

mkmk 5y ago

One nice part about this is that it slows down the real scalpers significantly – rather than just spinning up a new IP, email address, or temporary credit card number, they now can be rate-capped by requiring a new $200/yr membership for every $n Playstations sold.

mywittyname 5y ago
It sounds like the subscription is a one-time, annual deal. The similar Gamestop program allows people to buy multiple PS5s. The guy I bought mine from acquired several from the same account. From what I could tell, it actually helped scalpers since they got a 1 hour early window to buy them and it took like 45mins to sell out. You were limited to 1 bundle per transaction, but he could get through multiple transactions before they sold out.
_v7gu 5y ago
Don't scalpers make more money than 200$/console? Only they will be buying in this case.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  Bulk buyer pays 720-760 per console depending on market conditions. In a no tax condition this is barely profitable but I would expect to buy multiple PS5s with this and multiple graphics cards to pay it off. I expect real consumers to get screwed by this but scalpers to just adjust. All the scalpers are running the GameStop pro memberships on their bots for example. Keep in mind that real buyers don’t have much of a chance on Best Buy because the queue often gets bypassed by scalpers. Also you will still get hit by queue if you have this expensive account
rdtwo 5y ago
It’s a lot easier to absorb when you scalp half a dozen items on one account vs a consumer only needing one

mywittyname 5y ago

This is just a symptom of a larger problem: there aren't really good ways for retailers to do "market adjustments" upwards on products without resorting to tricks like mandatory bundling. Customers love when products are discounted, but froth at the mouth when they are marked up. Car manufactures figured out this problem by having sky-high sticker prices, then offering massive discounts. This turned out to be a smart move during the pandemic, because they could increase prices by 20% on some models by just not offering discounts. Special edition cars still suffer from ADM, which pisses people off, but in general this is a good solution. Every gaming console released in the past 20 years has had this initial price surge at launch. I really can't believe that Sony didn't just come out with an MSRP of ~$1300 at launch, and aggressively discount it as supplies grew. But I suppose they were worried about pissing consumers off, so they let scalpers take the heat off the brand, making the lost revenue is essentially a marketing/goodwill expense. I honestly think that people would have been fine if the initial MSRP was basically market-rate. People really, really, really seem to hate scalpers.

robcohen 5y ago
You raise some really good points. Perhaps Sony is also afraid that if the other makers don't follow suit, that they'll lose market share to the others due to unsynched releases. Car makers are expected to release new models yearly, but not so much for game systems. So if surge pricing is over with a nintendo switch but just starting with PS5, maybe the switch takes over. Perhaps people would rather compete to get a limited supply than to pay more?
- mywittyname 5y ago
  It could be that they are afraid of a high MSRP scaring away customers. But this isn't 1993. There was clearly a market for $1000+ priced PS5s that would have lasted at least a year. The PS4, PS4 Pro, and PS5 offer a good, stratified product lineup to justify the higher prices to consumers. Plus, the Switch never really competed with the XB or PS5. Kind of like with a PC, Switch ownership compliments XB or PS5 ownership pretty well. People buy the Switch for the Nintendo games, and maybe tolerate a shitty port of a game because they can play on the go. But most people seem happy to own both.

wdb 5y ago

Oh well, a store here in London locks the ability to buy a (second) Rolex behind a minimum spend of £45k on other things. Things you want are getting harder and harder to get; while the hard-to-get stuff will exit via the backdoor onto the grey market

throw8383833jj 5y ago

if you want a PS so badly, why not get a used one or older new one on ebay or amazon: like maybe one of the previous versions PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1 or maybe another game system? it'll probably be whole lot cheaper too and you don't have to pay extra.

IndexCardBox 5y ago
That's like saying "If you want a new iPad why not just buy an Apple Newton?"
bigwavedave 5y ago
> if you want a PS so badly, why not get a used one or older new one on ebay or amazon: like maybe one of the previous versions PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1 or maybe another game system? it'll probably be whole lot cheaper too and you don't have to pay extra. Well, for several reasons you may not have considered: 1) I need you to find me a listing for a "used" ps5 that isn't broken, double the retail price of a new system, or a flat out scam. 2) You seem to be laboring under the delusion that the only reason someone would upgrade to the ps5 is for the latest and greatest hardware or to simply have a Playstation console. Instead, you should consider that there exist people like myself who hope to upgrade because of games that are exclusive to the ps5. Edit: HN formatting is the best
- rdtwo 5y ago
  I mean you could camp targets and Twitter from 5-6 am every morning for 2-3 weeks and you would probably have a shot. Or you could pay a $150-200 fee and have someone do it for your. Or for 50-100 you could have someone run your profile on a bot. Lots of options
  - bigwavedave 5y ago
    I'm not disputing that there are options, since there certainly are- I was refuting the parent's assertion that buying a used model or one from an earlier generation are among them.

jsiepkes 5y ago

This might be a bit of a disingenuous take on it. As far as I can tell they first created the membership and then when they happened to get some (limited) PS5 stock made it a membership exclusive. I don't think it's super weird that you would give your members priority.

mikestew 5y ago

OT: so how is this not a dupe of what I submitted yesterday evening? Not that I'm complaining, I've got more points than I know what to do with, but when I submit a URL that has already been submitted, I'm redirected to the post that submitted first. AFAICT, this one is char-for-char the same URL, and the submitted title is the same. Just a question of technical curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28835960 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28835960

dfdz 5y ago
Well I am guessing posting on hacker news just before lunch time 11am PT is one of the good times to build momentum on a post (the time the current post was made) and I am guessing that if a previous post did not get many votes it is not counted as duplicate TLDR you posted at a non optimal time so your post didn’t count