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I think it ‘twas the interest rates that big vern was paying on coins that reminded me that it is a precarious house of cards and nobody should leave coins on e

I think it ‘twas the interest rates that big vern was paying on coins that reminded me that it is a precarious house of cards and nobody should leave coins on exchanges. For those that were not around, they would pay interest to incentivize leaving the coins in the exchange. Same thing is happening today. They will be stolen.

P18g4rKns6Q 5y ago
Cryptsy (and Coinbase) in 2013-14 were the wild west compared to today, I don't believe either had 2FA and if they did it was SMS-based. Neither had licenses, KYC, things like that. You could also argue the opposite: there are many more would-be attackers now that crypto is so much more popular; and the adage "not your keys, not your coins" still holds true. Still, I don't think it's naive to place more trust in exchanges today compared to that era in crypto. These people had $1M in crypto on Coinbase, if you had $1M in cash would a good financial advisor tell you to store it in an account that doesn't earn any interest? (I know there are many flaws in the cash-to-crypto comparison.)
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  Indeed there are many flaws. One loses 15% per year in value; the other gains >100% per year. You don’t need interest payments on Bitcoin for it to be economical to hold. It seems so foolish to risk such returns for a measly few percent on such an asset class. I think it’s some kind of greed test.
  - P18g4rKns6Q 5y ago
    We're not just talking about BTC though, one exchange is offering over 7% APY on DAI. Stablecoins don't gain 100% per year, they lose to inflation. Shouldn't crypto investors have a safe place to earn interest? "Don’t leave coins in exchanges" only solves the safety problem, it's not that simple. It's frustrating that we're seeing the same issues with security that we saw nearly a decade ago.
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      Yeah, you can get up to 8% on GUSD on Gemini; and Celsius even pays more (12%?) on dai if you accept their shittoken as interest. It’s a trap. Your stablecoins are leaking value every day. Crypto investors have no right to safely earn interest, no. They have one Satoshi given right — keep a private key confidential and use it to spend UTXOs. Everything else is bollocks and you will lose your coins.
      - P18g4rKns6Q 5y ago
        I never said they had that right. Your belief that "Bitcoin makes banks obsolete" will not be true until there are safe alternatives for compound interest on investments. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28835170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28835170 I read somewhere that "Every possible action you take in your life could be taken advantage by criminals. Do you want to let that restrict you ability to lead your life?" I don't, I'd like to have a safe place to store money that earns interest. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28518389 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28518389
        randomhodler84 5y ago
        The safest place to store money is self-custody, and we have that today. Nothing can possibly come close because it involves storing value with key escrow, trusting third parties. The very thing Satoshi invented this to avoid. Bitcoin does not yield any interest by itself, so it is not possible to earn interest risk free. It’s an incentive for third parties to take custody of your coins (where they will be stolen). I think I stand by my previous statements :-)
        P18g4rKns6Q 5y ago
        Then "Bitcoin makes banks obsolete" is not true; banks provide safe, interest-yielding accounts. You're arguing that we should not keep coins on exchanges because they could be taken advantage by criminals who are "restrict[ing] your ability to lead your [interest-earning financial] life." This is in direct contrast to your previous statements.

P18g4rKns6Q 5y ago

Cryptsy (and Coinbase) in 2013-14 were the wild west compared to today, I don't believe either had 2FA and if they did it was SMS-based. Neither had licenses, KYC, things like that. You could also argue the opposite: there are many more would-be attackers now that crypto is so much more popular; and the adage "not your keys, not your coins" still holds true. Still, I don't think it's naive to place more trust in exchanges today compared to that era in crypto. These people had $1M in crypto on Coinbase, if you had $1M in cash would a good financial advisor tell you to store it in an account that doesn't earn any interest? (I know there are many flaws in the cash-to-crypto comparison.)

randomhodler84 5y ago
Indeed there are many flaws. One loses 15% per year in value; the other gains >100% per year. You don’t need interest payments on Bitcoin for it to be economical to hold. It seems so foolish to risk such returns for a measly few percent on such an asset class. I think it’s some kind of greed test.
- P18g4rKns6Q 5y ago
  We're not just talking about BTC though, one exchange is offering over 7% APY on DAI. Stablecoins don't gain 100% per year, they lose to inflation. Shouldn't crypto investors have a safe place to earn interest? "Don’t leave coins in exchanges" only solves the safety problem, it's not that simple. It's frustrating that we're seeing the same issues with security that we saw nearly a decade ago.
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    Yeah, you can get up to 8% on GUSD on Gemini; and Celsius even pays more (12%?) on dai if you accept their shittoken as interest. It’s a trap. Your stablecoins are leaking value every day. Crypto investors have no right to safely earn interest, no. They have one Satoshi given right — keep a private key confidential and use it to spend UTXOs. Everything else is bollocks and you will lose your coins.
    - P18g4rKns6Q 5y ago
      I never said they had that right. Your belief that "Bitcoin makes banks obsolete" will not be true until there are safe alternatives for compound interest on investments. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28835170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28835170 I read somewhere that "Every possible action you take in your life could be taken advantage by criminals. Do you want to let that restrict you ability to lead your life?" I don't, I'd like to have a safe place to store money that earns interest. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28518389 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28518389
      - randomhodler84 5y ago
        The safest place to store money is self-custody, and we have that today. Nothing can possibly come close because it involves storing value with key escrow, trusting third parties. The very thing Satoshi invented this to avoid. Bitcoin does not yield any interest by itself, so it is not possible to earn interest risk free. It’s an incentive for third parties to take custody of your coins (where they will be stolen). I think I stand by my previous statements :-)
        P18g4rKns6Q 5y ago
        Then "Bitcoin makes banks obsolete" is not true; banks provide safe, interest-yielding accounts. You're arguing that we should not keep coins on exchanges because they could be taken advantage by criminals who are "restrict[ing] your ability to lead your [interest-earning financial] life." This is in direct contrast to your previous statements.