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Coinbase, taking a play from PayPal. It’s disgusting to me that these companies hold billions in others’ wealth but don’t think it’s a problem to not have prop

Coinbase, taking a play from PayPal. It’s disgusting to me that these companies hold billions in others’ wealth but don’t think it’s a problem to not have proper support until they are absolutely forced to.

jiveturkey 5y ago
Well, it's not a problem. Not that Coinbase is a monopoly (far from it), but this is what market power looks like.
mritun 5y ago
There are two views about the problem of fraud in the crypto world: 1. Intermediaries should make up for the unintentional losses. 2. Let it play out as the crypto promised. It’s DiFi after all. There are no chargebacks, no insurance, no tracking, no government intervention. Suck up the losses and keep playing. For now, it’s #2. If and when regulations come for #1, then crypto would look a lot like the commodities market. Every person making a crypto transaction would likely also have to follow KYC procedures and submit ID and file W8/W9. There’s no free lunch.
- Tenoke 5y ago
  This has nothing to do with Coinbase. CB is not DeFi.
toss1 5y ago
>>It [Coinbase Support] is a joke Indeed! But it is not funny. This is far less bad than the people in the article, but the Coinbase system had me locked out from May until August for an utterly trivial error - their Plaid system couldn't resolve the type of bank acct or account name, so I couldn't transfer in or out, despite having been a customer since 2015. Opening dozens of support tickets and emails attempting to resolve the problem got either auto-responses, or generic boilerplate replies - it was literally impossible to get anyone to actually look at the problem, and I pretty much gave up. Finally, to their credit, in August, a person actually looked at it, and had me use the old two deposits of $0.xx and tell them the amounts, and boom- I was verified again. They would have saved everyoe a ton of trouble (and not cost me large opportunity costs) by simply having this as a fallback option on the menu. Even though it takes a few days to transfer, I prefer it to the massively insecure Plaid option anyway. The bad UX design is enough of a problem, but their lack of support when real money is involved is inexcusable — no support for a search engine, fine, but with real money, nope. There really ought to be a law requiring specific service levels when money is involved... If they weren't pretty much the only game in town in the US...
- hackingforfun 5y ago
  Coinbase may have the highest volume in the US, however, there are several other viable US exchanges: Kraken, Gemini, Binance US and FTX US.
  - toss1 5y ago
    Yes, and most don't have much or any ability to exchange funds with US banks. Wire transfers, where allowed, are a PITA & expensive on both ends. &yes, there's plenty of exchanges where I can send one crypto currency and buy/sell another - it's the easy fiat exchange part that is the problem. (and I'd have about as much expectation of support or making things right with problems as from MtGox...)
    - hackingforfun 5y ago
      Yeah, I do still think Coinbase is the most convenient fiat gateway for US crypto exchanges (not considering their issues with support). FWIW though, after one wire transfer on Gemini they will let you ACH transfer back and forth with the account you wired from. It works pretty well. (However, watch out for fees by using their Gemini ActiveTrader interface, similar to using Coinbase Pro vs Coinbase). You can also use Plaid to link a bank account on Binance US, but it seemed buggy when I tried it. However, if that worked it would also allow ACH deposits and withdrawals. I haven't used FTX US, but it looks like they also have Plaid integration that should support ACH deposits and withdrawals. Wire transfers do seem to be the best option for deposits and withdrawals on Kraken. Some other options, including ACH, are available via their Buy Crypto widget (but it has higher fees, and apparently you can't withdrawal later via ACH). Anyway, if you want another fiat gateway that supports ACH deposits and withdrawals, and you're fine doing one wire to authorize a bank account, maybe check out Gemini.
      - toss1 5y ago
        Thanks! I'm definitely suspicious of Plaid, after reading that they not only login to verify you, but also harvest all of your transaction history - there was at least one HN discussion on it, but I don't have it handy. In any case, ill give Gemini a look!

jiveturkey 5y ago

Well, it's not a problem. Not that Coinbase is a monopoly (far from it), but this is what market power looks like.

mritun 5y ago

There are two views about the problem of fraud in the crypto world: 1. Intermediaries should make up for the unintentional losses. 2. Let it play out as the crypto promised. It’s DiFi after all. There are no chargebacks, no insurance, no tracking, no government intervention. Suck up the losses and keep playing. For now, it’s #2. If and when regulations come for #1, then crypto would look a lot like the commodities market. Every person making a crypto transaction would likely also have to follow KYC procedures and submit ID and file W8/W9. There’s no free lunch.

Tenoke 5y ago
This has nothing to do with Coinbase. CB is not DeFi.

toss1 5y ago

>>It [Coinbase Support] is a joke Indeed! But it is not funny. This is far less bad than the people in the article, but the Coinbase system had me locked out from May until August for an utterly trivial error - their Plaid system couldn't resolve the type of bank acct or account name, so I couldn't transfer in or out, despite having been a customer since 2015. Opening dozens of support tickets and emails attempting to resolve the problem got either auto-responses, or generic boilerplate replies - it was literally impossible to get anyone to actually look at the problem, and I pretty much gave up. Finally, to their credit, in August, a person actually looked at it, and had me use the old two deposits of $0.xx and tell them the amounts, and boom- I was verified again. They would have saved everyoe a ton of trouble (and not cost me large opportunity costs) by simply having this as a fallback option on the menu. Even though it takes a few days to transfer, I prefer it to the massively insecure Plaid option anyway. The bad UX design is enough of a problem, but their lack of support when real money is involved is inexcusable — no support for a search engine, fine, but with real money, nope. There really ought to be a law requiring specific service levels when money is involved... If they weren't pretty much the only game in town in the US...

hackingforfun 5y ago
Coinbase may have the highest volume in the US, however, there are several other viable US exchanges: Kraken, Gemini, Binance US and FTX US.
- toss1 5y ago
  Yes, and most don't have much or any ability to exchange funds with US banks. Wire transfers, where allowed, are a PITA & expensive on both ends. &yes, there's plenty of exchanges where I can send one crypto currency and buy/sell another - it's the easy fiat exchange part that is the problem. (and I'd have about as much expectation of support or making things right with problems as from MtGox...)
  - hackingforfun 5y ago
    Yeah, I do still think Coinbase is the most convenient fiat gateway for US crypto exchanges (not considering their issues with support). FWIW though, after one wire transfer on Gemini they will let you ACH transfer back and forth with the account you wired from. It works pretty well. (However, watch out for fees by using their Gemini ActiveTrader interface, similar to using Coinbase Pro vs Coinbase). You can also use Plaid to link a bank account on Binance US, but it seemed buggy when I tried it. However, if that worked it would also allow ACH deposits and withdrawals. I haven't used FTX US, but it looks like they also have Plaid integration that should support ACH deposits and withdrawals. Wire transfers do seem to be the best option for deposits and withdrawals on Kraken. Some other options, including ACH, are available via their Buy Crypto widget (but it has higher fees, and apparently you can't withdrawal later via ACH). Anyway, if you want another fiat gateway that supports ACH deposits and withdrawals, and you're fine doing one wire to authorize a bank account, maybe check out Gemini.
    - toss1 5y ago
      Thanks! I'm definitely suspicious of Plaid, after reading that they not only login to verify you, but also harvest all of your transaction history - there was at least one HN discussion on it, but I don't have it handy. In any case, ill give Gemini a look!