5 ms·

Natural immunity has a lower survival rate than vaccine-assisted natural immunity. In covid's case, notably so.

by floatingatoll 5y ago

jaywalk 5y ago
That's simply not true. At all.
- KaiserPro 5y ago
  ok, if thats not true, and we know that its very rare to suffer from covid twice, why is the rate of death in the UK much lower post vaccination (and without lockdown) vs before (and with)?
  - jdsfighter 5y ago
    How rare is it actually though? Just a bit of anecdotal evidence, but my office has had several outbreaks in the last several months. Many in the office have caught it multiple times in the that timeframe, a couple of which I know are fully vaccinated.
    - KaiserPro 5y ago
      > Many in the office have caught it multiple times in the that timeframe. If thats the case, and those are confirmed with PCR test, then we are catastrafucked. In the UK double infections are pretty rare. Given the routine level of testing (~1million tests a day) I'd expect to see some sort of indication or worry from the statisticians. > a couple of which I know are fully vaccinated. Again, I'd expect this to see some level of data to support double infections in vaccinated people with "normal" immune systems. I'd expect to see that data in the UK or Israel, possibly south korea as well. I'm sure it happens, but at a scale that we would see in a normal office, suggests something really quite common. But I can't find evidence to support that (I have a lot of doctor friends, who'd i'd expect to get re-infected, especially as they have been more lax with the little PPE they have. )
      - jaywalk 5y ago
        Here's a recent study on reinfection: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8373524/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8373524/ They found a "suspected" reinfection rate at 270 days of 0.8% so yeah, it's pretty rare.
      - jdsfighter 5y ago
        So to give a bit more insight. We've been back in the office since May of 2020. The vast majority of the office works in close contact, and no mitigation efforts are taken to prevent infection. The vast majority of the office is also unvaccinated. What we do have is a response protocol. If you wake up and feel unwell at all, you're asked to go take a COVID test. Most will simply go take a rapid test on their way into work, and they'll wait in the parking lot until they get their results. The last 2 outbreaks have been among the exact same group of people: the office bible study group. That group meets at least once a week in close quarters for an hour or two at a time. As of right now, at least 5 of the people that are currently out and have positive PCR tests have had it at least one other time in the last three to four months, with another positive PCR test to confirm. Our company requires everyone send in their proof of a negative or positive tests each time they're taken, and you cannot return to work until it's been submitted.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  Edit: I was totally off base. Original: Sorry, are you arguing that the vaccine has killed more people than the virus? Because there's no way you have numbers that actually support that. Given that there are now far more vaccinated than infected in America, you'd need to find near on a million vaccine deaths.
  - detaro 5y ago
    I don't get how you could possibly come to the conclusion that that's what they are arguing.
    - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
      Yeah, upon rereading, neither do I. I thought it was a vaccine vs natural immunity thing.
      - floatingatoll 5y ago
        What? No. The vaccine makes the death complications less likely. You might still get Covid after being vaccinated, but you probably won’t get the full vascular infection if you were vaccinated beforehand. That’s all I mean.
- VectorLock 5y ago
  How is it not? Compare the number of people who got immunity through COVID infection / those who died of COVID vs. number of people who got immunity through vaccination / those who died of the vaccination.
  - jaywalk 5y ago
    I'm not talking about the vaccine itself killing people, and I don't believe the comment I replied to was either. I'm saying that more people have died from Covid after being vaccinated than have died from Covid after having gained natural immunity. Meaning they survived the first infection, got infected again, and then died from that second infection.
    - VectorLock 5y ago
      >I'm saying that more people have died from Covid after being vaccinated than have died from Covid after having gained natural immunity. Meaning they survived the first infection, got infected again, and then died from that second infection. Can you cite nay sources for that conclusion?
floatingatoll 5y ago
Copying my reply downthread to here: > The vaccine makes the death complications less likely. You might still get Covid after being vaccinated, but you probably won’t get the full vascular infection if you were vaccinated beforehand. That’s all I mean. I have no idea why this is a topic of debate, no doubt there's some wording error, hooray English. I don't really have anything else to say so I'll leave y'all to it.

Natural immunity has a lower survival rate than vaccine-assisted natural immunity. In covid's case, notably so.

jaywalk 5y ago

That's simply not true. At all.

KaiserPro 5y ago
ok, if thats not true, and we know that its very rare to suffer from covid twice, why is the rate of death in the UK much lower post vaccination (and without lockdown) vs before (and with)?
- jdsfighter 5y ago
  How rare is it actually though? Just a bit of anecdotal evidence, but my office has had several outbreaks in the last several months. Many in the office have caught it multiple times in the that timeframe, a couple of which I know are fully vaccinated.
  - KaiserPro 5y ago
    > Many in the office have caught it multiple times in the that timeframe. If thats the case, and those are confirmed with PCR test, then we are catastrafucked. In the UK double infections are pretty rare. Given the routine level of testing (~1million tests a day) I'd expect to see some sort of indication or worry from the statisticians. > a couple of which I know are fully vaccinated. Again, I'd expect this to see some level of data to support double infections in vaccinated people with "normal" immune systems. I'd expect to see that data in the UK or Israel, possibly south korea as well. I'm sure it happens, but at a scale that we would see in a normal office, suggests something really quite common. But I can't find evidence to support that (I have a lot of doctor friends, who'd i'd expect to get re-infected, especially as they have been more lax with the little PPE they have. )
    - jaywalk 5y ago
      Here's a recent study on reinfection: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8373524/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8373524/ They found a "suspected" reinfection rate at 270 days of 0.8% so yeah, it's pretty rare.
    - jdsfighter 5y ago
      So to give a bit more insight. We've been back in the office since May of 2020. The vast majority of the office works in close contact, and no mitigation efforts are taken to prevent infection. The vast majority of the office is also unvaccinated. What we do have is a response protocol. If you wake up and feel unwell at all, you're asked to go take a COVID test. Most will simply go take a rapid test on their way into work, and they'll wait in the parking lot until they get their results. The last 2 outbreaks have been among the exact same group of people: the office bible study group. That group meets at least once a week in close quarters for an hour or two at a time. As of right now, at least 5 of the people that are currently out and have positive PCR tests have had it at least one other time in the last three to four months, with another positive PCR test to confirm. Our company requires everyone send in their proof of a negative or positive tests each time they're taken, and you cannot return to work until it's been submitted.
SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
Edit: I was totally off base. Original: Sorry, are you arguing that the vaccine has killed more people than the virus? Because there's no way you have numbers that actually support that. Given that there are now far more vaccinated than infected in America, you'd need to find near on a million vaccine deaths.
- detaro 5y ago
  I don't get how you could possibly come to the conclusion that that's what they are arguing.
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    Yeah, upon rereading, neither do I. I thought it was a vaccine vs natural immunity thing.
    - floatingatoll 5y ago
      What? No. The vaccine makes the death complications less likely. You might still get Covid after being vaccinated, but you probably won’t get the full vascular infection if you were vaccinated beforehand. That’s all I mean.
VectorLock 5y ago
How is it not? Compare the number of people who got immunity through COVID infection / those who died of COVID vs. number of people who got immunity through vaccination / those who died of the vaccination.
- jaywalk 5y ago
  I'm not talking about the vaccine itself killing people, and I don't believe the comment I replied to was either. I'm saying that more people have died from Covid after being vaccinated than have died from Covid after having gained natural immunity. Meaning they survived the first infection, got infected again, and then died from that second infection.
  - VectorLock 5y ago
    >I'm saying that more people have died from Covid after being vaccinated than have died from Covid after having gained natural immunity. Meaning they survived the first infection, got infected again, and then died from that second infection. Can you cite nay sources for that conclusion?

floatingatoll 5y ago

Copying my reply downthread to here: > The vaccine makes the death complications less likely. You might still get Covid after being vaccinated, but you probably won’t get the full vascular infection if you were vaccinated beforehand. That’s all I mean. I have no idea why this is a topic of debate, no doubt there's some wording error, hooray English. I don't really have anything else to say so I'll leave y'all to it.