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This looks like some abomination of the ancient molex drive connection with part of an ATX main connection. At which point does the GPU get its own dedicated p

This looks like some abomination of the ancient molex drive connection with part of an ATX main connection. At which point does the GPU get its own dedicated power supply?

crest 5y ago
http://tdfx.de/ger/voodoo_volts.shtml http://tdfx.de/ger/voodoo_volts.shtml
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
We seem to be reaching the point where I expect it'll soon make more sense to consider the GPU as the heart of the computer and the CPU as a peripheral.
- cesarb 5y ago
  Isn't the Raspberry Pi already there? IIRC, its main core is the GPU, and the ARM cores are one of the peripherals.
  - PlutoIsAPlanet 5y ago
    I may be wrong but isn't on some mobile CPUs (perhaps Qualcomm?) the modem chip is the first chip on and the CPU is a peripheral.
- kevingadd 5y ago
  Historically typical GPU power draw has exceeded CPU draw for a really long time. In terms of peak compute throughput the GPU usually has an advantage in any gaming-focused machine, and even general productivity ones. A developer workstation with a Threadripper probably evens things out more. A GPU these days can often do general purpose compute, but not in a way that meaningfully allows it to compete with the OS for heavily branched or random access workloads since its memory controller and execution model are a poor fit. I'm not sure we'd ever see GPUs fully displace CPUs for that reason.
- belter 5y ago
  The CPU is a peripheral ;-) (See Slide 5): https://papers.put.as/papers/firmware/2014/2014-10_Breakpoint_Intel_ME_-_Two_Years_Later.pdf https://papers.put.as/papers/firmware/2014/2014-10_Breakpoin...
scrooched_moose 5y ago
Will Smith (of Tested/Maximum PC) mentioned in one of his recent podcast episodes [1] that GPU vendors tried to add dedicated power supplies to cards, with their own AC connection, a while back (mid 2000s or so if I remember right). Consumer/industry pushback killed it before they hit shelves and the vendors focused on efficiency instead. I don't see the same pushback happening these days. 1) https://techpod.content.town/ https://techpod.content.town/
- fredoralive 5y ago
  I think the mad 4 processor 3DFX Voodoo 5 6000 that was never released used an external power supply, at least on some PCB revisions. I'm not sure if any released graphics card has used their own power supplies. I think they all used some sort of internal connection to the standard power supply if the slot can't power it alone.
vmception 5y ago
> At which point does the GPU get its own dedicated power supply? This is true in many machines already for several years, if you look at the machines the hard to find GPUs are actually in. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is a market force behind this new PCIe standard.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  Yeah, I was recently looking for an ATX motherboard extension cable to hack apart for an evening project, and all the results were for splitters to connect extra PSUs to the mobo's Power On signal for mining rigs.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Right, precisely. Its surprising how much people don't want to hear it. Its like an acknowledgement of reality is seen as an endorsement of that reality.
stefan_ 5y ago
Why would it ever? It's much more efficient to scale up the one AC mains voltage -> 12V DC supply you already have. You think in datacenters they are just stacking up PSUs? No, all of this stuff gets vastly more efficient and reliable if you can build just one big PSU to supply say 48V DC and distribute that everywhere.
- timw4mail 5y ago
  My understanding is that most normal servers have their own PSUs, and often a hot spare. But that's not really relevant. The question was more rhetorical than serious.
cogman10 5y ago
The real question is at what point do gamers start choosing lower power parts because the GPU is too power hungry? Do we get into a world where professional gamers start having 240V lines installed for their PCs? A US power outlet is typically rated at 120VAC@15A, that's a 1800W budget if the only thing on the circuit is a PC.
- kevingadd 5y ago
  Well, the higher power draw cards tend to be more expensive, so in practice budget-focused gamers are already buying lower power parts. AMD and NVidia have at times competed on power usage, but generally that doesn't sell units to the degree that game support or new features do. For mobile you start getting traction there because '<vendor>-based laptops have an hour of extra battery life' is meaningful, but gamer laptops are typically designed to be plugged in. The higher power draw typically means more heat and louder fans as well but for some reason noise doesn't seem to be a consideration for most gamers - every gaming laptop I've ever used was unbearably loud.

This looks like some abomination of the ancient molex drive connection with part of an ATX main connection. At which point does the GPU get its own dedicated power supply?

crest 5y ago

http://tdfx.de/ger/voodoo_volts.shtml http://tdfx.de/ger/voodoo_volts.shtml

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

We seem to be reaching the point where I expect it'll soon make more sense to consider the GPU as the heart of the computer and the CPU as a peripheral.

cesarb 5y ago
Isn't the Raspberry Pi already there? IIRC, its main core is the GPU, and the ARM cores are one of the peripherals.
- PlutoIsAPlanet 5y ago
  I may be wrong but isn't on some mobile CPUs (perhaps Qualcomm?) the modem chip is the first chip on and the CPU is a peripheral.
kevingadd 5y ago
Historically typical GPU power draw has exceeded CPU draw for a really long time. In terms of peak compute throughput the GPU usually has an advantage in any gaming-focused machine, and even general productivity ones. A developer workstation with a Threadripper probably evens things out more. A GPU these days can often do general purpose compute, but not in a way that meaningfully allows it to compete with the OS for heavily branched or random access workloads since its memory controller and execution model are a poor fit. I'm not sure we'd ever see GPUs fully displace CPUs for that reason.
belter 5y ago
The CPU is a peripheral ;-) (See Slide 5): https://papers.put.as/papers/firmware/2014/2014-10_Breakpoint_Intel_ME_-_Two_Years_Later.pdf https://papers.put.as/papers/firmware/2014/2014-10_Breakpoin...

scrooched_moose 5y ago

Will Smith (of Tested/Maximum PC) mentioned in one of his recent podcast episodes [1] that GPU vendors tried to add dedicated power supplies to cards, with their own AC connection, a while back (mid 2000s or so if I remember right). Consumer/industry pushback killed it before they hit shelves and the vendors focused on efficiency instead. I don't see the same pushback happening these days. 1) https://techpod.content.town/ https://techpod.content.town/

fredoralive 5y ago
I think the mad 4 processor 3DFX Voodoo 5 6000 that was never released used an external power supply, at least on some PCB revisions. I'm not sure if any released graphics card has used their own power supplies. I think they all used some sort of internal connection to the standard power supply if the slot can't power it alone.

vmception 5y ago

> At which point does the GPU get its own dedicated power supply? This is true in many machines already for several years, if you look at the machines the hard to find GPUs are actually in. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is a market force behind this new PCIe standard.

nitrogen 5y ago
Yeah, I was recently looking for an ATX motherboard extension cable to hack apart for an evening project, and all the results were for splitters to connect extra PSUs to the mobo's Power On signal for mining rigs.
- vmception 5y ago
  Right, precisely. Its surprising how much people don't want to hear it. Its like an acknowledgement of reality is seen as an endorsement of that reality.

stefan_ 5y ago

Why would it ever? It's much more efficient to scale up the one AC mains voltage -> 12V DC supply you already have. You think in datacenters they are just stacking up PSUs? No, all of this stuff gets vastly more efficient and reliable if you can build just one big PSU to supply say 48V DC and distribute that everywhere.

timw4mail 5y ago
My understanding is that most normal servers have their own PSUs, and often a hot spare. But that's not really relevant. The question was more rhetorical than serious.

cogman10 5y ago

The real question is at what point do gamers start choosing lower power parts because the GPU is too power hungry? Do we get into a world where professional gamers start having 240V lines installed for their PCs? A US power outlet is typically rated at 120VAC@15A, that's a 1800W budget if the only thing on the circuit is a PC.

kevingadd 5y ago
Well, the higher power draw cards tend to be more expensive, so in practice budget-focused gamers are already buying lower power parts. AMD and NVidia have at times competed on power usage, but generally that doesn't sell units to the degree that game support or new features do. For mobile you start getting traction there because '<vendor>-based laptops have an hour of extra battery life' is meaningful, but gamer laptops are typically designed to be plugged in. The higher power draw typically means more heat and louder fans as well but for some reason noise doesn't seem to be a consideration for most gamers - every gaming laptop I've ever used was unbearably loud.