13 ms·

Why Japan Looks the Way It Does: Zoning [video]

143 points by enaaem 5y ago

yboris 5y ago
I lived in Tokyo for 2.5 months in a furnished 2br apartment ~7 min walk from 3 different subway stations (2 stations away from Shinjuku) for $1,500/month. The company renting the apartment caters to non-Japanese-speaking tourists and they handled all the paperwork. Visiting from the US for less than 3 months is hassle free. My experience was wonderful. I've now visited 6 times in my life and am eager to return. The streets of Tokyo (and other cities) always feel cozy to me - my favorite destination.
- QandThanks 5y ago
  Can you mention what company you used? I'd like to do similar, the airbnb's i've seen with such a location were always too pricey. Also, I clicked your profile and saw the video hub. Just wanted to say thanks as I have been looking for something like that for quite a while.
  - yboris 5y ago
    Fontana - https://www.tokyocityapartments.net/ https://www.tokyocityapartments.net/ I have not used other companies and I used Fontana just once, but it was a great experience. On the paperwork front - there was gas, electric, and water that I had to pay (you take the bill and pay at any convenience store - very easy) - the company can help if you have questions. They can also help close the three accounts when you are finished with the apartment. The apartment came with free WiFi. Minimum stay was 2 months (policy likely still in place).
setgree 5y ago
Very nice! For more on the subject, see this article in the Financial Times [0], which got a nice write up on marginal revolution [1] [0]: https://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3c60.html?siteedition=intl https://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3... [1]: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/08/laissez-faire-in-tokyo.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/08/la...
japanftw 5y ago
It is unbelievable how much more developed most east asian countries are compared to the west. While poverty, corruption and crime are rampant in western europe and the us, countries such as japan, south korea and singapore are thriving.
- mlindner 5y ago
  Equating the US and Western Europe seems like a strange thing to do. The problems both have are almost completely unrelated.
- suction 5y ago
  Japan is long beyond its thriving years. Once you go into the countryside or smaller towns, there are many boarded-up businesses, decay, and infrastructure that is in dire need of investment.
newyankee 5y ago
If the income/ wealth for a given city is not uniformly distributed (not delving into the reasons), having an almost strict usage of land based on higher incomes doesn't seem quite capitalistic as in US/ Canada. Quite a valid point by the narrator. If housing is a basic need, vested interests are preventing it from becoming cheaper due to how much intertwined it has become with today's economic system. NIMBY is just class warfare with a catchy names and wrapped in supposedly noble intentions while impacting the poorest.
- mlindner 5y ago
  There is no evidence for the so called "class war" some people try to make as an argument for why housing is so expensive. They have built in assumptions that there already is a class war and then try to find evidence to support their theory, when in fact the high housing pricing can easily be explained by simple supply and demand which is usually caused by restrictive zoning regulations making additional housing either impossible or uneconomic.
pjc50 5y ago
I'd be interested in hearing how this is handled in various European countries, because "zoning" in the SimCity style doesn't really exist in the UK. We have an explicit permission system: https://www.createstreets.com/the-long-history-of-british-land-use-regulation/ https://www.createstreets.com/the-long-history-of-british-la... (long, but extremely good, it describes the system as "nationalising development", very much in keeping with the postwar mood).
lemoncookiechip 5y ago
Japan has a serious problem with lack of sound proofing in most of the buildings you'll come across, as well an insane amount of paper work involved in everything you do. Finding a house, moving, trashing large items, getting a car license, dealing with the bank, and pretty much every aspect of life you can think of, involves a lot of paper work as well as your physical presence. If you're a foreigner who is moving to Japan, this problem is tripled, as well as some discrimination (not necessarily racism) you might find while looking for housing, due to fear of foreigners just leaving. These issues aren't very clear when you're there on a tourist visa due to how easy everything seems. Unless you have a company dealing with this stuff for you, you're going to have some headaches. There's also odd day to day things, such as being unable to withdraw money from ATMs after hours, which is mind-boggling to a foreigner like me. Otherwise, Japan is an amazing well oiled peaceful machine that just requires A LOT of paper work to get going.
- teek 5y ago
  I've been living in Japan for over 5 years. > Japan has a serious problem with lack of sound proofing in most of the buildings you'll come across In older or cheaper buildings this is true. However if you pay you can have better sound proofing. For example some Japanese mansions (residential low-rise condominiums) are built from reinforced concrete and isolate sound fairly well. You just have to be careful to read about the building and its construction. You also have to be willing to pay extra for better construction materials. > as well as some discrimination (not necessarily racism) you might find while looking for housing This is true for rentals. I also want to clarify Japanese also experience discrimination so it is not purely a non-Japanese thing. Generally landlords have freedom to put whatever restrictions they want on who they rent the unit to. But this is for good reason. A landlord cannot easily evict a tenant. So the landlord is taking a huge risk in trusting that the tenant will respect the contract and actually pay the rent. I will say in buildings owned by corporations or businesses, they sometimes don't have any discrimination by nationality. They do tend to have higher requirements for income and may discriminate based on your current company employment contract. Also they may require a specific guarantor company which tends to be more expensive. The guarantor company is sort of a risk insurance for the landlord paid by the tenant. However things are quite different if you buy the land outright. Here the only restriction is bank loans. If you do not have permanent residence, the number of banks willing to lend money are very few. If you have permanent residence then you have many more banks to choose from. Otherwise there is no restriction on who can buy land. > Unless you have a company dealing with this stuff for you, you're going to have some headaches. I think it is all about perspective and expectations. In Japan the Japanese are used to dealing with bureaucracy (though many Japanese also really dislike it). The information is readily available, you just have research yourself. Otherwise you have to accept that you are moving to a non-English speaking country and it is your responsibility to find a way to understand the local language or get someone to help you. I do agree that there are still many headaches to adjust to Japanese business and culture. But I also don't understand why everyone has an expectation that Japan must change to meet their expectations. Japan is a first world country with many issues, but it isn't a place where you can expect to be free of first-world problems. For example in the US nearly nobody bothers to complain about credit rating agencies. Maintaining your credit is seen as something you control. Which isn't necessarily true. Credit ratings greatly affect American lives. So everyone is in a way obligated to participate in a non-government created scheme yet nobody bats an eye. Just sign up for a credit card.
aeharding 5y ago
See also: NotJustBikes https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0 https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0 Strong Towns https://www.strongtowns.org/ https://www.strongtowns.org/
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
helen___keller 5y ago
I agree strongly with his point that the Japanese style of zoning is more capitalistic. Everything about modern zoning in American cities exists to prevent your neighbors from using their land how they want to use it. We've made great advances in quality of life since the 1920s, but most places to live around my area date pre-war unless you can afford to live in a glass tower luxury condo complex. Rebuilding those 1920s-era buildings is generally not possible, and definitely not economical. In Japan, it's common practice to buy a plot of land, demolish any structure currently on that land, and build your dream home from a catalog (based on your budget, of course). It's bafflingly capitalistic compared to how my city is run, where most of the housing stock is in violation of current zoning law, you're lucky if the house you want to buy doesn't have any asbestos, and presence of lead is treated as a dont-ask-dont-tell situation.
ladyattis 5y ago
I think Japan's metropolitan zoning has some merits over the US/CA models. It just seems like here in the US we chose cars over street cars too soon and forced everyone to homogenize neighborhoods going forward. The idea of a mixed use zoning seems like a smart solution among other things we can try here in the US to clamp down on what I call "concrete hell."
- njharman 5y ago
  > we chose cars We didn't choose, decision was foisted on us by tire, car and oil company lobbyists.
  - carapace 5y ago
    FWIW this is my go to source for the story: "The Real Reason Jaywalking Is A Crime (Adam Ruins Everything)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxopfjXkArM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxopfjXkArM It's brief and fairly entertaining.
    - ravitation 5y ago
      Another longer, but also entertaining, source for the story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOttvpjJvAo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOttvpjJvAo
  - ladyattis 5y ago
    Also, I believe the US Army wanted an interstate highway system to use in place of the rail network. So there were many stakeholders that brought us this car centric landscape into existence.
bin_bash 5y ago
I'm sure living in Japan comes with its own set of problems, but whenever I learn about something like this it makes it sound like such a paradise. I can't imagine how great it would be to live in a small, affordable community where I walk my daughter to school every day and can take care of most errands without using my car. It seems in America you can pick 2 from safe, affordable, and walkable.
- skhr0680 5y ago
  If you can find a way to make money without working for a company that demands all of your time for a small wage, Japan is a great place to live. Having schools etc in walking distance means that all of the local people keep an eye out to make sure each other’s kids are safe. It’s really nice.
- JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
  You can get all three, you just have to live somewhere outside the two coasts I think. I’ve got all three in a small town in the middle. I walk on the sidewalk in front of my house to the library that is a few doors down from my incredibly affordable house. It feels like a Norman Rockwell painting. I’m hoping remote work can allow more people to experience this.
  - gremIin 5y ago
    What are you job options if you get laid off? How often do you and your spouse spend time with friends? I would hate moving to a small town and being cut off from seeing friends whenever I want to. Not to mention people tend to congregate towards larger cities, so moving to a small town probably means giving up quality food and my favorite events like sports and the symphony.
    - JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
      I’m self-employed, so I can’t be laid off! My gf and I don’t really like to socialize that much and prefer to stay in and play video games and watch tv, so we love it. The ubiquity of the internet has made it possible to live almost anywhere in my opinion. For $25 a month we can see and do pretty much the same thing everyone else is doing every night on the internet. We cook our own meals also. You can always make new friends in a small town. There are trade-offs to be sure, but if you knew how low my mortgage payment is you might choose like we did. :) All the money I save has allowed me to invest heavily, which will allow me to travel and see the world instead of see a city go by every day on a commute to work until I’m old.
mlindner 5y ago
More like a "lack of zoning". Japan's very limited zoning restrictions allows more natural cities to be built. Additionally, the train companies own the land around the train stations and are thus encouraged to develop the land for commercial use, effectively setting up destinations for the users of their train systems. The cities then develop around the train stations as the primary hubs of commerce.
bane 5y ago
"Life Where I'm From" is a fantastic channel. His series on homelessness in Japan is one of the best and most thoughtful pieces on the subject I've ever seen, and makes me very much question the way of homelessness elsewhere. Japan isn't a perfect paradise by any stretch of the imagination, but if you end up having to build several high-density megalopolises, it's as close to an ideal model as possible. It's very hard to describe why their cities are so good because it's a list of a million small things. If you can, visit and see. It's a wonderful collision of familiar and bafflingly different all in one.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

143 points by enaaem 5y ago

I lived in Tokyo for 2.5 months in a furnished 2br apartment ~7 min walk from 3 different subway stations (2 stations away from Shinjuku) for $1,500/month. The company renting the apartment caters to non-Japanese-speaking tourists and they handled all the paperwork. Visiting from the US for less than 3 months is hassle free. My experience was wonderful. I've now visited 6 times in my life and am eager to return. The streets of Tokyo (and other cities) always feel cozy to me - my favorite destination.

QandThanks 5y ago
Can you mention what company you used? I'd like to do similar, the airbnb's i've seen with such a location were always too pricey. Also, I clicked your profile and saw the video hub. Just wanted to say thanks as I have been looking for something like that for quite a while.
- yboris 5y ago
  Fontana - https://www.tokyocityapartments.net/ https://www.tokyocityapartments.net/ I have not used other companies and I used Fontana just once, but it was a great experience. On the paperwork front - there was gas, electric, and water that I had to pay (you take the bill and pay at any convenience store - very easy) - the company can help if you have questions. They can also help close the three accounts when you are finished with the apartment. The apartment came with free WiFi. Minimum stay was 2 months (policy likely still in place).

setgree 5y ago

Very nice! For more on the subject, see this article in the Financial Times [0], which got a nice write up on marginal revolution [1] [0]: https://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3c60.html?siteedition=intl https://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3... [1]: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/08/laissez-faire-in-tokyo.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/08/la...

japanftw 5y ago

It is unbelievable how much more developed most east asian countries are compared to the west. While poverty, corruption and crime are rampant in western europe and the us, countries such as japan, south korea and singapore are thriving.

mlindner 5y ago
Equating the US and Western Europe seems like a strange thing to do. The problems both have are almost completely unrelated.
suction 5y ago
Japan is long beyond its thriving years. Once you go into the countryside or smaller towns, there are many boarded-up businesses, decay, and infrastructure that is in dire need of investment.

newyankee 5y ago

If the income/ wealth for a given city is not uniformly distributed (not delving into the reasons), having an almost strict usage of land based on higher incomes doesn't seem quite capitalistic as in US/ Canada. Quite a valid point by the narrator. If housing is a basic need, vested interests are preventing it from becoming cheaper due to how much intertwined it has become with today's economic system. NIMBY is just class warfare with a catchy names and wrapped in supposedly noble intentions while impacting the poorest.

mlindner 5y ago
There is no evidence for the so called "class war" some people try to make as an argument for why housing is so expensive. They have built in assumptions that there already is a class war and then try to find evidence to support their theory, when in fact the high housing pricing can easily be explained by simple supply and demand which is usually caused by restrictive zoning regulations making additional housing either impossible or uneconomic.

pjc50 5y ago

I'd be interested in hearing how this is handled in various European countries, because "zoning" in the SimCity style doesn't really exist in the UK. We have an explicit permission system: https://www.createstreets.com/the-long-history-of-british-land-use-regulation/ https://www.createstreets.com/the-long-history-of-british-la... (long, but extremely good, it describes the system as "nationalising development", very much in keeping with the postwar mood).

lemoncookiechip 5y ago

Japan has a serious problem with lack of sound proofing in most of the buildings you'll come across, as well an insane amount of paper work involved in everything you do. Finding a house, moving, trashing large items, getting a car license, dealing with the bank, and pretty much every aspect of life you can think of, involves a lot of paper work as well as your physical presence. If you're a foreigner who is moving to Japan, this problem is tripled, as well as some discrimination (not necessarily racism) you might find while looking for housing, due to fear of foreigners just leaving. These issues aren't very clear when you're there on a tourist visa due to how easy everything seems. Unless you have a company dealing with this stuff for you, you're going to have some headaches. There's also odd day to day things, such as being unable to withdraw money from ATMs after hours, which is mind-boggling to a foreigner like me. Otherwise, Japan is an amazing well oiled peaceful machine that just requires A LOT of paper work to get going.

teek 5y ago
I've been living in Japan for over 5 years. > Japan has a serious problem with lack of sound proofing in most of the buildings you'll come across In older or cheaper buildings this is true. However if you pay you can have better sound proofing. For example some Japanese mansions (residential low-rise condominiums) are built from reinforced concrete and isolate sound fairly well. You just have to be careful to read about the building and its construction. You also have to be willing to pay extra for better construction materials. > as well as some discrimination (not necessarily racism) you might find while looking for housing This is true for rentals. I also want to clarify Japanese also experience discrimination so it is not purely a non-Japanese thing. Generally landlords have freedom to put whatever restrictions they want on who they rent the unit to. But this is for good reason. A landlord cannot easily evict a tenant. So the landlord is taking a huge risk in trusting that the tenant will respect the contract and actually pay the rent. I will say in buildings owned by corporations or businesses, they sometimes don't have any discrimination by nationality. They do tend to have higher requirements for income and may discriminate based on your current company employment contract. Also they may require a specific guarantor company which tends to be more expensive. The guarantor company is sort of a risk insurance for the landlord paid by the tenant. However things are quite different if you buy the land outright. Here the only restriction is bank loans. If you do not have permanent residence, the number of banks willing to lend money are very few. If you have permanent residence then you have many more banks to choose from. Otherwise there is no restriction on who can buy land. > Unless you have a company dealing with this stuff for you, you're going to have some headaches. I think it is all about perspective and expectations. In Japan the Japanese are used to dealing with bureaucracy (though many Japanese also really dislike it). The information is readily available, you just have research yourself. Otherwise you have to accept that you are moving to a non-English speaking country and it is your responsibility to find a way to understand the local language or get someone to help you. I do agree that there are still many headaches to adjust to Japanese business and culture. But I also don't understand why everyone has an expectation that Japan must change to meet their expectations. Japan is a first world country with many issues, but it isn't a place where you can expect to be free of first-world problems. For example in the US nearly nobody bothers to complain about credit rating agencies. Maintaining your credit is seen as something you control. Which isn't necessarily true. Credit ratings greatly affect American lives. So everyone is in a way obligated to participate in a non-government created scheme yet nobody bats an eye. Just sign up for a credit card.

aeharding 5y ago

See also: NotJustBikes https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0 https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0 Strong Towns https://www.strongtowns.org/ https://www.strongtowns.org/

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

helen___keller 5y ago

I agree strongly with his point that the Japanese style of zoning is more capitalistic. Everything about modern zoning in American cities exists to prevent your neighbors from using their land how they want to use it. We've made great advances in quality of life since the 1920s, but most places to live around my area date pre-war unless you can afford to live in a glass tower luxury condo complex. Rebuilding those 1920s-era buildings is generally not possible, and definitely not economical. In Japan, it's common practice to buy a plot of land, demolish any structure currently on that land, and build your dream home from a catalog (based on your budget, of course). It's bafflingly capitalistic compared to how my city is run, where most of the housing stock is in violation of current zoning law, you're lucky if the house you want to buy doesn't have any asbestos, and presence of lead is treated as a dont-ask-dont-tell situation.

ladyattis 5y ago

I think Japan's metropolitan zoning has some merits over the US/CA models. It just seems like here in the US we chose cars over street cars too soon and forced everyone to homogenize neighborhoods going forward. The idea of a mixed use zoning seems like a smart solution among other things we can try here in the US to clamp down on what I call "concrete hell."

njharman 5y ago
> we chose cars We didn't choose, decision was foisted on us by tire, car and oil company lobbyists.
- carapace 5y ago
  FWIW this is my go to source for the story: "The Real Reason Jaywalking Is A Crime (Adam Ruins Everything)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxopfjXkArM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxopfjXkArM It's brief and fairly entertaining.
  - ravitation 5y ago
    Another longer, but also entertaining, source for the story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOttvpjJvAo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOttvpjJvAo
- ladyattis 5y ago
  Also, I believe the US Army wanted an interstate highway system to use in place of the rail network. So there were many stakeholders that brought us this car centric landscape into existence.

bin_bash 5y ago

I'm sure living in Japan comes with its own set of problems, but whenever I learn about something like this it makes it sound like such a paradise. I can't imagine how great it would be to live in a small, affordable community where I walk my daughter to school every day and can take care of most errands without using my car. It seems in America you can pick 2 from safe, affordable, and walkable.

skhr0680 5y ago
If you can find a way to make money without working for a company that demands all of your time for a small wage, Japan is a great place to live. Having schools etc in walking distance means that all of the local people keep an eye out to make sure each other’s kids are safe. It’s really nice.
JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
You can get all three, you just have to live somewhere outside the two coasts I think. I’ve got all three in a small town in the middle. I walk on the sidewalk in front of my house to the library that is a few doors down from my incredibly affordable house. It feels like a Norman Rockwell painting. I’m hoping remote work can allow more people to experience this.
- gremIin 5y ago
  What are you job options if you get laid off? How often do you and your spouse spend time with friends? I would hate moving to a small town and being cut off from seeing friends whenever I want to. Not to mention people tend to congregate towards larger cities, so moving to a small town probably means giving up quality food and my favorite events like sports and the symphony.
  - JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
    I’m self-employed, so I can’t be laid off! My gf and I don’t really like to socialize that much and prefer to stay in and play video games and watch tv, so we love it. The ubiquity of the internet has made it possible to live almost anywhere in my opinion. For $25 a month we can see and do pretty much the same thing everyone else is doing every night on the internet. We cook our own meals also. You can always make new friends in a small town. There are trade-offs to be sure, but if you knew how low my mortgage payment is you might choose like we did. :) All the money I save has allowed me to invest heavily, which will allow me to travel and see the world instead of see a city go by every day on a commute to work until I’m old.

mlindner 5y ago

More like a "lack of zoning". Japan's very limited zoning restrictions allows more natural cities to be built. Additionally, the train companies own the land around the train stations and are thus encouraged to develop the land for commercial use, effectively setting up destinations for the users of their train systems. The cities then develop around the train stations as the primary hubs of commerce.

bane 5y ago

"Life Where I'm From" is a fantastic channel. His series on homelessness in Japan is one of the best and most thoughtful pieces on the subject I've ever seen, and makes me very much question the way of homelessness elsewhere. Japan isn't a perfect paradise by any stretch of the imagination, but if you end up having to build several high-density megalopolises, it's as close to an ideal model as possible. It's very hard to describe why their cities are so good because it's a list of a million small things. If you can, visit and see. It's a wonderful collision of familiar and bafflingly different all in one.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]