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We already have electrical grid scale storage with methane which is one of the possible power to gas implementations [0]. It's just nobody does it because it i

by mrep 5y ago

We already have electrical grid scale storage with methane which is one of the possible power to gas implementations [0]. It's just nobody does it because it is cheaper to get it out of the ground. Sure, the efficiency isn't as good as batteries, but wikipedia shows nuclear being over 3x as expensive as wind/solar [1]. Power to gas using wind/solar can definitely be done cheaper than that. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#/media/File:20201019_Levelized_Cost_of_Energy_(LCOE,_Lazard)_-_renewable_energy.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#...

MagnumOpus 5y ago
Wikipedia shows nuclear in France at EUR 70/MWh, and solar without storage at around EUR 50/MWh. Storage will make it easily more expensive than nuclear plants. Remember, Europe is farther north and less insolated than California, Hawaii or Morocco, where solar PV might achieve $30-40/MWh.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  Seen this not too long ago: [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28679985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28679985 [1] https://xlinks.co/morocco-uk-power-project/ https://xlinks.co/morocco-uk-power-project/ [2] https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/04/22/submarine-cable-to-connect-10-5-gw-wind-solar-complex-in-morocco-to-the-uk-grid/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/04/22/submarine-cable-to-co... [3] https://electrek.co/2021/09/27/the-worlds-longest-subsea-cable-will-send-clean-energy-from-morocco-to-the-uk/ https://electrek.co/2021/09/27/the-worlds-longest-subsea-cab... Smells like Desertec, but what the heck?
- tlocke 5y ago
  It's difficult to work out the cost of nuclear in France because the electricity industry is so intertwined with the state. For example, how much does their insurance cost? I bet they're effectively insured by state which doesn't show up in the figures. Also, the only country in the world that actually has a long-term solution for nuclear waste is Finland. To their credit, the Finns have built a storage facility that can remain intact for the necessary 10,000 years. The French have no long term nuclear waste storage, they're just kicking the can down the road, as is every other country except Finland.

by mrep 5y ago

MagnumOpus 5y ago

Wikipedia shows nuclear in France at EUR 70/MWh, and solar without storage at around EUR 50/MWh. Storage will make it easily more expensive than nuclear plants. Remember, Europe is farther north and less insolated than California, Hawaii or Morocco, where solar PV might achieve $30-40/MWh.

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
Seen this not too long ago: [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28679985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28679985 [1] https://xlinks.co/morocco-uk-power-project/ https://xlinks.co/morocco-uk-power-project/ [2] https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/04/22/submarine-cable-to-connect-10-5-gw-wind-solar-complex-in-morocco-to-the-uk-grid/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/04/22/submarine-cable-to-co... [3] https://electrek.co/2021/09/27/the-worlds-longest-subsea-cable-will-send-clean-energy-from-morocco-to-the-uk/ https://electrek.co/2021/09/27/the-worlds-longest-subsea-cab... Smells like Desertec, but what the heck?
tlocke 5y ago
It's difficult to work out the cost of nuclear in France because the electricity industry is so intertwined with the state. For example, how much does their insurance cost? I bet they're effectively insured by state which doesn't show up in the figures. Also, the only country in the world that actually has a long-term solution for nuclear waste is Finland. To their credit, the Finns have built a storage facility that can remain intact for the necessary 10,000 years. The French have no long term nuclear waste storage, they're just kicking the can down the road, as is every other country except Finland.