4 ms·

Basically, if a person chooses not to get the vaccine, they also choose to live under the same restrictions that were imposed on everyone half a year ago, befor

Basically, if a person chooses not to get the vaccine, they also choose to live under the same restrictions that were imposed on everyone half a year ago, before the vaccinations started rolling out. Guess what, if you make choices that negatively affect the safety of others in society, society decides to impose negative consequences for you. Same as we have prisons, speeding tickets, fines for polluting, etc. And as others have pointed out, none of those consequences depend on the digital identity, just on choice not to get vaccinated.

walterbell 5y ago
In Europe, this is not true, since recovered immunity is recognized for a pass. Unlike half a year ago, we now know that Covid-recovered people are least likely to be infected or transmitted. We know that vaccinated people can be both infected (without symptoms even) and transmitting, depending on the time since their last injection. If the goal is to prevent infection and transmission, we would be limiting public participation to those recovered or with a recent negative test. It's meaningless to speak about vax or unvax, what matters is immune or non-immune. Everyone vaccinated who has never had Covid can only gain immunity (note: not "protection" as defined by CDC) by being infected and recovering. The vaccine reduces the chance of severe illness from that infection.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
  Don't post things that are categorically untrue. Covid infection does not provide immunity. There is absolutely zero evidence that it does, and plenty of evidence to prove that reinfection happens.
  - walterbell 5y ago
    The latest UK medical data for the week of 7th Oct reports possible reinfection on page 18 as less than one percent of 5.9 million, https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1023910/Weekly_Flu_and_COVID-19_report_w40_v2.pdf#page18 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/.... That's the upper end of the estimate. The strictest, provable numbers for reinfection, based on genetic sequencing, are under 300 cases = 0.005%. Intramuscular vaccines are explicitly stated by the CDC and manufacturers as not providing sterilizing immunity. They only provide protection via serum/blood antibodies, against serious illness. Recovery from Covid infection (of vax or unvax) provides nasal/mucosal immunity that can stop future infections in the upper respiratory tract. Future nasal vaccines may provide sterilizing immunity, but injections into the deltoid muscle do not. Other data sources on reinfection would be appreciated.
  - posix_me_less 5y ago
    Stop spreading disinformation. https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/ https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-indu...
skocznymroczny 5y ago
When was the society asked what consequences to impose? No one asked in my country if such policies should be implemented.
- semi-extrinsic 5y ago
  When was the society asked what the punishment should be for speeding tickets? For pollution into the environment? For murder?
  - walterbell 5y ago
    The good news is that we'll soon be inventing entirely new punishments for regulatory capture.

walterbell 5y ago

In Europe, this is not true, since recovered immunity is recognized for a pass. Unlike half a year ago, we now know that Covid-recovered people are least likely to be infected or transmitted. We know that vaccinated people can be both infected (without symptoms even) and transmitting, depending on the time since their last injection. If the goal is to prevent infection and transmission, we would be limiting public participation to those recovered or with a recent negative test. It's meaningless to speak about vax or unvax, what matters is immune or non-immune. Everyone vaccinated who has never had Covid can only gain immunity (note: not "protection" as defined by CDC) by being infected and recovering. The vaccine reduces the chance of severe illness from that infection.

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
Don't post things that are categorically untrue. Covid infection does not provide immunity. There is absolutely zero evidence that it does, and plenty of evidence to prove that reinfection happens.
- walterbell 5y ago
  The latest UK medical data for the week of 7th Oct reports possible reinfection on page 18 as less than one percent of 5.9 million, https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1023910/Weekly_Flu_and_COVID-19_report_w40_v2.pdf#page18 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/.... That's the upper end of the estimate. The strictest, provable numbers for reinfection, based on genetic sequencing, are under 300 cases = 0.005%. Intramuscular vaccines are explicitly stated by the CDC and manufacturers as not providing sterilizing immunity. They only provide protection via serum/blood antibodies, against serious illness. Recovery from Covid infection (of vax or unvax) provides nasal/mucosal immunity that can stop future infections in the upper respiratory tract. Future nasal vaccines may provide sterilizing immunity, but injections into the deltoid muscle do not. Other data sources on reinfection would be appreciated.
- posix_me_less 5y ago
  Stop spreading disinformation. https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/ https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-indu...

skocznymroczny 5y ago

When was the society asked what consequences to impose? No one asked in my country if such policies should be implemented.

semi-extrinsic 5y ago
When was the society asked what the punishment should be for speeding tickets? For pollution into the environment? For murder?
- walterbell 5y ago
  The good news is that we'll soon be inventing entirely new punishments for regulatory capture.