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> Plenty of occupations as a class or specific jobs have education, certification and licensing requirements. Completely agreed. So we should expect their sala

> Plenty of occupations as a class or specific jobs have education, certification and licensing requirements. Completely agreed. So we should expect their salaries to be higher on average than jobs with the same education requirement but without certification and licensing requirements, right? > If it isn't a job requirement Some districts pay more for teachers with a Master's degree. Eg, https://www.teachingdegree.org/states/florida/ https://www.teachingdegree.org/states/florida/ says "Florida teacher salary can increase to $59,050 for educators with a master's degree and 20+ years of experience." The smart accreditation bodies optimize workforce competency by incentivizing increased relevant training. > My guess is whenever they want as long as it happens on time. Sure. But I'm making a rather different point. As you likely recall, willcipriano compared a teacher's summer break as being equivalent to "bachelors degree if they took summers off unpaid." If the teacher does a week of continuing education during the summer, then that comparison (and calculation) is invalid, because the teacher is not "off".

adolph 5y ago
Continuing Education: Summers are still “off” even if CE is performed then if CE is considered a requirement of the profession not tied to a particular employment agreement. Funding for CE or anything else doesn’t come from magic. It comes from the value generated by a service provider. An employer “providing” CE funding and/or time is really just skimming money that could be provider paycheck into CE. There may be pragmatic advantages to this such as volume pricing or tax rules. My guess is that CE is a rounding error in the grand scheme of things. Should one expect occupations with higher licensing and CE requirements to have higher salaries than those without? Would the difference in pay be undetectable because it’s within the natural range of variability? In terms of producer-consumer relations licensing acts as a signal of base quality for products that are difficult for consumers to evaluate. This may not mean that consumers will pay more for it if there is no option of a lower cost unlicensed product compared to a higher cost licensed one. In the absence of alternatives then it would be impossible to know what an unlicensed valuation would be.
- eesmith 5y ago
  "Off" seems to mean different things to you and me. Suppose I am a teacher, and have two months where I don't teach students, but during those two months I take continuing education courses, and make lesson plans for the rest of the year, is that "off" in the same way that someone who takes two months from work to tour Europe is "off"? If so, we have an irreconcilable disagreement on basic definitions. My issue isn't 'An employer “providing” CE funding'. My issue is that willcipriano didn't include that unpaid time in the comparison between a teacher and a hypothetical 'Person with bachelors degree'. That is, I argue the calculation should not be based on calendar days, but on hours worked in order to have the career - both paid and unpaid. > My guess is that CE is a rounding error in the grand scheme of things. CE is a rounding error. Supporting extra-curricular activities is a rounding error. Grading in the evening is a rounding error. Doing lesson plans on the weekends is a rounding error. But put them all together and it's no longer a rounding error.
  - adolph 5y ago
    > "Off" seems to mean different things to you and me. I don't think it is reconcilable. I'll offer: In this context "off" refers to time not spent in paid employment. Is that a fair definition? My assertion: Spending time outside of paid employment to be able to retain paid employment or to gain improved compensation is not uncommon. My reference to a rounding error was not well written. The rounding error has to do with the difference between the effect of licensing on compensation and the natural variation in compensation between occupations. If license effect on compensation is small, then the comparison of teaching to other occupations requiring a bachelors degree without respect to licensing is valid. Some of the difference in variability has to do with the standard compensation models different occupations chose in the early stage of the profession's development. As an example, nursing is principally compensated hourly rather than by salary. Outside of productivity improvements, when additional duties are required then there are choices of: less valuable duties are delegated to lower skilled workers, or less valuable duties are depreciated, or the amount of time budgeted increases. For teachers on a salary any time spent on duties outside classroom hours is effectively a pay cut. Presumably this is a mechanism for less efficient teachers to realize their predicament and self-select out of the occupation.

adolph 5y ago

Continuing Education: Summers are still “off” even if CE is performed then if CE is considered a requirement of the profession not tied to a particular employment agreement. Funding for CE or anything else doesn’t come from magic. It comes from the value generated by a service provider. An employer “providing” CE funding and/or time is really just skimming money that could be provider paycheck into CE. There may be pragmatic advantages to this such as volume pricing or tax rules. My guess is that CE is a rounding error in the grand scheme of things. Should one expect occupations with higher licensing and CE requirements to have higher salaries than those without? Would the difference in pay be undetectable because it’s within the natural range of variability? In terms of producer-consumer relations licensing acts as a signal of base quality for products that are difficult for consumers to evaluate. This may not mean that consumers will pay more for it if there is no option of a lower cost unlicensed product compared to a higher cost licensed one. In the absence of alternatives then it would be impossible to know what an unlicensed valuation would be.

eesmith 5y ago
"Off" seems to mean different things to you and me. Suppose I am a teacher, and have two months where I don't teach students, but during those two months I take continuing education courses, and make lesson plans for the rest of the year, is that "off" in the same way that someone who takes two months from work to tour Europe is "off"? If so, we have an irreconcilable disagreement on basic definitions. My issue isn't 'An employer “providing” CE funding'. My issue is that willcipriano didn't include that unpaid time in the comparison between a teacher and a hypothetical 'Person with bachelors degree'. That is, I argue the calculation should not be based on calendar days, but on hours worked in order to have the career - both paid and unpaid. > My guess is that CE is a rounding error in the grand scheme of things. CE is a rounding error. Supporting extra-curricular activities is a rounding error. Grading in the evening is a rounding error. Doing lesson plans on the weekends is a rounding error. But put them all together and it's no longer a rounding error.
- adolph 5y ago
  > "Off" seems to mean different things to you and me. I don't think it is reconcilable. I'll offer: In this context "off" refers to time not spent in paid employment. Is that a fair definition? My assertion: Spending time outside of paid employment to be able to retain paid employment or to gain improved compensation is not uncommon. My reference to a rounding error was not well written. The rounding error has to do with the difference between the effect of licensing on compensation and the natural variation in compensation between occupations. If license effect on compensation is small, then the comparison of teaching to other occupations requiring a bachelors degree without respect to licensing is valid. Some of the difference in variability has to do with the standard compensation models different occupations chose in the early stage of the profession's development. As an example, nursing is principally compensated hourly rather than by salary. Outside of productivity improvements, when additional duties are required then there are choices of: less valuable duties are delegated to lower skilled workers, or less valuable duties are depreciated, or the amount of time budgeted increases. For teachers on a salary any time spent on duties outside classroom hours is effectively a pay cut. Presumably this is a mechanism for less efficient teachers to realize their predicament and self-select out of the occupation.