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It's unlikely the Romans fully understood the chemistry behind the concrete they created and instead relied upon centuries of trial and error to perfect their m

It's unlikely the Romans fully understood the chemistry behind the concrete they created and instead relied upon centuries of trial and error to perfect their mixes. Beginning with their insistence on using pozzolanas found near and around Mt. Vesuvius. Those pozzolans were so important they were transported by ship from Naples to Caesarea and preferred over local materials to make the concrete studied there today. Marie Jackson's research over the past twenty-thirty years has been stunning and quite simply, is a gift to the world. I was pleased to see her mentioned, quoted, and continuing to perform her understated yet very valuable research into Roman Concrete. Well done Marie, again.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"It's unlikely the Romans fully understood the chemistry behind the concrete they created and instead relied upon centuries of trial and error to perfect their mixes." We don't fully unserstand quantum mechsnics, but have working CPUs. We dont fully understand even fucking sand. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/science/what-makes-sand-soft.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/science/what-makes-sand-s... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in_physics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in...
DeathArrow 5y ago
>It's unlikely the Romans fully understood the chemistry behind the concrete they created and instead relied upon centuries of trial and error to perfect their mixes. Some of the greatest achievements were perfected by trial and error. It is a valid way to build things.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
  Actually, this is how we were made.
- johnohara 5y ago
  Agree completely. But her research continues to answer the question "why", not "how." Millenia after the fact.
- Sylamore 5y ago
  And yet today we are so quick to throw out old methods and ideas simply because they are old, not because they are inferior to new replacements.
  - worrycue 5y ago
    Any examples?
    - Sylamore 5y ago
      Well, growing up I remember my grandparents describing how they used to get milk, soda, beer and household chemicals in glass containers instead of plastic. I grew up long after that was common, but as a kid it was still profitable to collect the glass soda bottles I found and return them for the meager deposit fees to buy stuff. Now everything is in single use disposable plastic containers and there are microplastics in everything. It was more common to repair rather than replace things like vacuum cleaners, TVs and small appliances in my youth, now everything is disposable and tossed in the landfill as soon as it breaks. I remember reusing paper sacks when we went to the grocery store instead of single-use plastic bags, and even if they weren't reused they could be used to collect compostable waste in the house and just tossed in the compost pile for the garden to break down with all the other organics if they weren't used in some other way - but even just tossing them away was arguably more sustainable than the plastic bags we used today. Professionally, I've worked on efforts to automate warehouse work and the business continuity strategy is always "they can use the manual process from before" except that within a less than a year many don't remember the manual process, no new staff was trained on the manual process and even if someone was still on staff that knew the manual process chances are it's no longer even possible due to other system changes. Then something happens that takes out the automation for a day or two. You even see echos of that in the current Just in Time supply chain issues many companies are experiencing. The automation is good because it enables improved pick rates but the skills to work without the automation are lost quickly, my point to the business has always been you need to practice without the automation though unless you want to accept shutting down all warehouse activity when systems go down.
- MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
  People think things get invented by white coat wearing "scientists" in a lab. The reality is it was always tinkerers and inventors, the scientific models and explanations came after. Why is it that we have given up on building beautiful buildings and cities? I suspect one factor is that we moved from a culture based in craftsmanship to university-educated architects.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

"It's unlikely the Romans fully understood the chemistry behind the concrete they created and instead relied upon centuries of trial and error to perfect their mixes." We don't fully unserstand quantum mechsnics, but have working CPUs. We dont fully understand even fucking sand. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/science/what-makes-sand-soft.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/science/what-makes-sand-s... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in_physics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in...

DeathArrow 5y ago

>It's unlikely the Romans fully understood the chemistry behind the concrete they created and instead relied upon centuries of trial and error to perfect their mixes. Some of the greatest achievements were perfected by trial and error. It is a valid way to build things.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
Actually, this is how we were made.
johnohara 5y ago
Agree completely. But her research continues to answer the question "why", not "how." Millenia after the fact.
Sylamore 5y ago
And yet today we are so quick to throw out old methods and ideas simply because they are old, not because they are inferior to new replacements.
- worrycue 5y ago
  Any examples?
  - Sylamore 5y ago
    Well, growing up I remember my grandparents describing how they used to get milk, soda, beer and household chemicals in glass containers instead of plastic. I grew up long after that was common, but as a kid it was still profitable to collect the glass soda bottles I found and return them for the meager deposit fees to buy stuff. Now everything is in single use disposable plastic containers and there are microplastics in everything. It was more common to repair rather than replace things like vacuum cleaners, TVs and small appliances in my youth, now everything is disposable and tossed in the landfill as soon as it breaks. I remember reusing paper sacks when we went to the grocery store instead of single-use plastic bags, and even if they weren't reused they could be used to collect compostable waste in the house and just tossed in the compost pile for the garden to break down with all the other organics if they weren't used in some other way - but even just tossing them away was arguably more sustainable than the plastic bags we used today. Professionally, I've worked on efforts to automate warehouse work and the business continuity strategy is always "they can use the manual process from before" except that within a less than a year many don't remember the manual process, no new staff was trained on the manual process and even if someone was still on staff that knew the manual process chances are it's no longer even possible due to other system changes. Then something happens that takes out the automation for a day or two. You even see echos of that in the current Just in Time supply chain issues many companies are experiencing. The automation is good because it enables improved pick rates but the skills to work without the automation are lost quickly, my point to the business has always been you need to practice without the automation though unless you want to accept shutting down all warehouse activity when systems go down.
MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
People think things get invented by white coat wearing "scientists" in a lab. The reality is it was always tinkerers and inventors, the scientific models and explanations came after. Why is it that we have given up on building beautiful buildings and cities? I suspect one factor is that we moved from a culture based in craftsmanship to university-educated architects.