6 ms·

I live in Melbourne, the most locked down city in the world. We have substantially lower death rates than Florida, which has a comparable population. Florida:

by ntSean 5y ago

I live in Melbourne, the most locked down city in the world. We have substantially lower death rates than Florida, which has a comparable population. Florida: 3,600,000 covid cases 56,667 deaths Melbourne: 54,470 covid cases 913 deaths This remains true for the rest of Australia. Unfortunately, we are in a remarkable position compared to many parts of the world.

6nf 5y ago
Florida population is 21 million, Australia is 26 million. AUD 300 billion to save 70,000 lives, that's 4 million dollars per life saved. The median covid death is 85 years old. We spent 4 million dollars to save one 85 year old person for a few more years.
- paranoidrobot 5y ago
  > AUD 300 billion to save 70,000 lives You keep quoting 300 billion, where are you getting that from?
  - 6nf 5y ago
    https://budget.gov.au/2021-22/content/covid.htm https://budget.gov.au/2021-22/content/covid.htm Please explain how am I using this number incorrectly? What is the correct number I should be using instead?
    - paranoidrobot 5y ago
      You're using that number incorrectly. It's like that classic Pirates vs Global Average Temperature chart[1] [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikaandersen/2012/03/23/true-fact-the-lack-of-pirates-is-causing-global-warming/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikaandersen/2012/03/23/true-f...
    - paranoidrobot 5y ago
      It makes about as much sense to say that we spent $300B to save 70,000 people as it does to say that the US has spent trillions to kill 714,000. One is not the cause of the other, in either direction.
      - 6nf 5y ago
        The US does not go to war just to kill people. Australia's covid response is purely for saving lives.
        paranoidrobot 5y ago
        I said nothing about war, I'm talking about the COVID response in both cases. The US Federal Government has spent trillions on COVID related bills. Over $5.3 trillion if this[1] is to be believed. USD$5.3 trillion / US Population = $16k/person (approx) AUD$291 billion / AU Population = AUD$11400/person (~USD$8,300 approx) On the face of it, we spent a whole lot less, and have had at least as good, if not a better economic outcome. [1] https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2021/03/heres-everything-congress-has-done-to-respond-to-the-coronavirus-so-far https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2021/03/heres-everything-congress-...
- javagram 5y ago
  The median covid death is 85 years old? Where did you get that number? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-... Using the US dataset as an example of mortality when covid-19 is allowed to spread unrestricted in a population, 700,952 died. Only 193k were 85 and older, so the median covid death must be younger than that - in the lower end of the 74-85 age cohort where another 185k have died.
  - 6nf 5y ago
    I'm using the australian numbers So you found one number in my argument that you dont like and that invalidates my entire point? Is that what you're saying? What number would you prefer instead of the 85? Does that change everything?
    - javagram 5y ago
      Why use the Australian numbers to argue that AU should have taken the USA’s approach of unrestricted covid spreading? Australia’s numbers won’t match what happens when covid-19 spreads widely, because they successfully stopped it.
    - javagram 5y ago
      Just realized (I think) you edited in the later sentences after I replied. Yea, it does invalidate your point, the average years of life lost from a Covid-19 death is fourteen not a few as you suggested. Many, many people lost more than a decade of productive, happy life to this virus in countries where it was allowed to spread. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/16/americans-lost-more-years-of-life-to-covid-19-in-2020-than-to-all-accidents-combined-in-a-typical-year/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/16/americans-l...
      - 6nf 5y ago
        So we're spending $20m on 14 years of life.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  Do Florida and Victoria have similar age structure? Immigration patterns?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- selcuka 5y ago
  The whole calculation is wrong, but even if it was correct, I would still be amazed by the fact that you think $4m is too much to get one person live for a few more years.
  - 6nf 5y ago
    This is only one year, we're gonna keep spending money on the covid response as long as there's lockdowns. We do not have unlimited money and there's better ways to increase lifespan for less than $4M per person per year
    - shadilay 5y ago
      Length of life is such a horrible metric. What about quality of life?

by ntSean 5y ago

6nf 5y ago

Florida population is 21 million, Australia is 26 million. AUD 300 billion to save 70,000 lives, that's 4 million dollars per life saved. The median covid death is 85 years old. We spent 4 million dollars to save one 85 year old person for a few more years.

paranoidrobot 5y ago
> AUD 300 billion to save 70,000 lives You keep quoting 300 billion, where are you getting that from?
- 6nf 5y ago
  https://budget.gov.au/2021-22/content/covid.htm https://budget.gov.au/2021-22/content/covid.htm Please explain how am I using this number incorrectly? What is the correct number I should be using instead?
  - paranoidrobot 5y ago
    You're using that number incorrectly. It's like that classic Pirates vs Global Average Temperature chart[1] [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikaandersen/2012/03/23/true-fact-the-lack-of-pirates-is-causing-global-warming/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikaandersen/2012/03/23/true-f...
  - paranoidrobot 5y ago
    It makes about as much sense to say that we spent $300B to save 70,000 people as it does to say that the US has spent trillions to kill 714,000. One is not the cause of the other, in either direction.
    - 6nf 5y ago
      The US does not go to war just to kill people. Australia's covid response is purely for saving lives.
      - paranoidrobot 5y ago
        I said nothing about war, I'm talking about the COVID response in both cases. The US Federal Government has spent trillions on COVID related bills. Over $5.3 trillion if this[1] is to be believed. USD$5.3 trillion / US Population = $16k/person (approx) AUD$291 billion / AU Population = AUD$11400/person (~USD$8,300 approx) On the face of it, we spent a whole lot less, and have had at least as good, if not a better economic outcome. [1] https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2021/03/heres-everything-congress-has-done-to-respond-to-the-coronavirus-so-far https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2021/03/heres-everything-congress-...
javagram 5y ago
The median covid death is 85 years old? Where did you get that number? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-... Using the US dataset as an example of mortality when covid-19 is allowed to spread unrestricted in a population, 700,952 died. Only 193k were 85 and older, so the median covid death must be younger than that - in the lower end of the 74-85 age cohort where another 185k have died.
- 6nf 5y ago
  I'm using the australian numbers So you found one number in my argument that you dont like and that invalidates my entire point? Is that what you're saying? What number would you prefer instead of the 85? Does that change everything?
  - javagram 5y ago
    Why use the Australian numbers to argue that AU should have taken the USA’s approach of unrestricted covid spreading? Australia’s numbers won’t match what happens when covid-19 spreads widely, because they successfully stopped it.
  - javagram 5y ago
    Just realized (I think) you edited in the later sentences after I replied. Yea, it does invalidate your point, the average years of life lost from a Covid-19 death is fourteen not a few as you suggested. Many, many people lost more than a decade of productive, happy life to this virus in countries where it was allowed to spread. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/16/americans-lost-more-years-of-life-to-covid-19-in-2020-than-to-all-accidents-combined-in-a-typical-year/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/16/americans-l...
    - 6nf 5y ago
      So we're spending $20m on 14 years of life.
selimthegrim 5y ago
Do Florida and Victoria have similar age structure? Immigration patterns?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
selcuka 5y ago
The whole calculation is wrong, but even if it was correct, I would still be amazed by the fact that you think $4m is too much to get one person live for a few more years.
- 6nf 5y ago
  This is only one year, we're gonna keep spending money on the covid response as long as there's lockdowns. We do not have unlimited money and there's better ways to increase lifespan for less than $4M per person per year
  - shadilay 5y ago
    Length of life is such a horrible metric. What about quality of life?