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I live in NZ and feel that commentors of our govts approach overstate the level of authoritarianism we're experiencing. Its not universal but it feels more like

I live in NZ and feel that commentors of our govts approach overstate the level of authoritarianism we're experiencing. Its not universal but it feels more like the majority of people recognize that lockdowns and other restrictions are for the greater good. If you are arrested you are not going to be "disapeared", you will be processed like anyone else breaking a law. While we might collectively trust the current elected govt, I dont automatically trust that a future govt won't abuse new laws hastily written to lawfully restrict peope though. Anyway, mostly just came here to say how comical it seems when we're compared with genuine dictatoriships ruled by autocrats where you can simply be dissapeared if you step out of line. We're far from that and its just media bating. There's a conflict between being able to protest by gathering and spreading covid... Agree in the long term laws restricting congregating need to be monitored and disestablished. Its no mystery that kiwis feel part of a team when the current govt has done pretty well with its propaganda, but Its the approach Id have taken too.

hulahoof 5y ago
At least in Australia and for myself personally, I am not worried about how we are being treated _now_, I am worried about the powers that have the capacity to be abused in the future without a legal standing for opposition.
- CTDOCodebases 5y ago
  Some of the laws we have in Australia are quite crazy. They are getting abused now or have been implemented with such little judicial oversight that there is no need to abuse them.
- jay_kyburz 5y ago
  I feel the need to point out that you are probably not concerned about your treatment now because you have no power and are of no consequence. If you were a senior public servant and had uncovered some wrong doing in your, or any other department, you would care. If you were a journalist and writing a story that could embarrass somebody with power, you would care. If you were in the military and a witness war crimes, you would care. Even if you were a lawyer working to represent somebody, anybody with any power, you would care. People are being "disappeared" and legal proceedings conducted in secret. We found out about Witness K. What haven't we heard about?
  - afarviral 5y ago
    In NZ and AU you are not restricted by the covid laws if you are in these situations. Other laws protect your right to comms and legal representation, nothing about the covid restrictions has anything to do with that stuff..? Could theoretically be twisted or further changed down the road to protect corrupt officials? Please elaborate.
  - hulahoof 5y ago
    You are of course completely correct
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  I can understand that. However the US was recently almost taken over by a fascist President so I'm keeping up my guard as much I can against the spying and speaking out wherever and whenever I can
version_five 5y ago
You definitely highlight something many miss, which is that this really is a war waged on people by their fellow countrymen. It's nice to imagine a "them" that wants to repress people, but it's always actually your friends and neighbors. That's why countries have constitutions and charters of rights and freedoms, to protect against a tyranny of the majority. Currently we have chosen to ignore these, or found out they are not strong enough, and I hope in time we can imagine what it would be like if our opponents had broad powers and properly limit what government is able to impose on people.
postingawayonhn 5y ago
Things have been pretty sweet (except for the quarantine limits) in NZ until the last month or so. I spent all of last summer there and life was like normal. Back home in Melbourne there's essentially been various levels of lockdown continuously for 18 months. Currently there is a nighttime curfew in place, limits on how long you allowed outside (pretty much unenforceable though), compulsory mask wearing anywhere outside of the home, permits required to go to your place of work, no right to protest, no right to organise your fellow citizens to protest, etc. It's pretty scary to me that all that can be brought in and accepted by large parts of the population. How long will it take to unwind all this? I imagine it will be at least another year or two before we properly return to normal.

hulahoof 5y ago

At least in Australia and for myself personally, I am not worried about how we are being treated _now_, I am worried about the powers that have the capacity to be abused in the future without a legal standing for opposition.

CTDOCodebases 5y ago
Some of the laws we have in Australia are quite crazy. They are getting abused now or have been implemented with such little judicial oversight that there is no need to abuse them.
jay_kyburz 5y ago
I feel the need to point out that you are probably not concerned about your treatment now because you have no power and are of no consequence. If you were a senior public servant and had uncovered some wrong doing in your, or any other department, you would care. If you were a journalist and writing a story that could embarrass somebody with power, you would care. If you were in the military and a witness war crimes, you would care. Even if you were a lawyer working to represent somebody, anybody with any power, you would care. People are being "disappeared" and legal proceedings conducted in secret. We found out about Witness K. What haven't we heard about?
- afarviral 5y ago
  In NZ and AU you are not restricted by the covid laws if you are in these situations. Other laws protect your right to comms and legal representation, nothing about the covid restrictions has anything to do with that stuff..? Could theoretically be twisted or further changed down the road to protect corrupt officials? Please elaborate.
- hulahoof 5y ago
  You are of course completely correct
stjohnswarts 5y ago
I can understand that. However the US was recently almost taken over by a fascist President so I'm keeping up my guard as much I can against the spying and speaking out wherever and whenever I can

version_five 5y ago

You definitely highlight something many miss, which is that this really is a war waged on people by their fellow countrymen. It's nice to imagine a "them" that wants to repress people, but it's always actually your friends and neighbors. That's why countries have constitutions and charters of rights and freedoms, to protect against a tyranny of the majority. Currently we have chosen to ignore these, or found out they are not strong enough, and I hope in time we can imagine what it would be like if our opponents had broad powers and properly limit what government is able to impose on people.

postingawayonhn 5y ago

Things have been pretty sweet (except for the quarantine limits) in NZ until the last month or so. I spent all of last summer there and life was like normal. Back home in Melbourne there's essentially been various levels of lockdown continuously for 18 months. Currently there is a nighttime curfew in place, limits on how long you allowed outside (pretty much unenforceable though), compulsory mask wearing anywhere outside of the home, permits required to go to your place of work, no right to protest, no right to organise your fellow citizens to protest, etc. It's pretty scary to me that all that can be brought in and accepted by large parts of the population. How long will it take to unwind all this? I imagine it will be at least another year or two before we properly return to normal.