4 ms·

Not just repair hostility: especially JD sought to wall in their garden a decade or so ago. They went all-in on Canbus/SAE J1939 and used the proprietary word s

Not just repair hostility: especially JD sought to wall in their garden a decade or so ago. They went all-in on Canbus/SAE J1939 and used the proprietary word spec to keep out other manufacturers of ag automation. I worked at Trimble Navigation during that time, remember it well. Most manufacturers were still using direct hydraulic controls then. Not JD. Evidently things have just got worse since.

maxerickson 5y ago
You seem to be saying electronic controls are bad. Why?
- sandworm101 5y ago
  They are not innately bad, but they are implemented in a bad way. A system of hydraulic control lines cannot be locked behind copyright. They can be physically fixed. A cracked manifold can be welded or replaced. But when fixing a modern electronic system you must have the permission of the manufacturer before replacing a part, or even opening some boxes. Any mechanic can see leaking hydraulic fluid. But modern electronic systems can require special/expensive tools just to read the error code telling you which part has failed.
  - fho 5y ago
    Next up: John Deere invents a hydraulic rights managment (HRM) system that implements a communication protocol between hydraulic components using high frequency pressure changes in the hydraulic lines. These signals are interpreted by mechanical/hydraulic processing units to p̵r̵e̵v̵e̵n̵t̵ ̵t̵a̵m̵p̵e̵r̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵w̵i̵t̵h̵ ensure the quality of the product.
    - voakbasda 5y ago
      Don’t give them ideas. They have proven themselves willing to screw their customers. Don’t give them another way to extort us.
JamisonM 5y ago
Isn't using J1939 just an example of them embracing an industry standard? That stuff is everywhere now, right?
- jet_32951 5y ago
  It is how you embrace J1939 that makes the difference. In a J1939 dataframe two data words are defined: one open, the other proprietary. The proprietary word can be, and is with JD's implementation, encrypted. Therefore, anything actuated by the proprietary word is operable iff you have the key.
  - JamisonM 5y ago
    Thanks!

maxerickson 5y ago

You seem to be saying electronic controls are bad. Why?

sandworm101 5y ago
They are not innately bad, but they are implemented in a bad way. A system of hydraulic control lines cannot be locked behind copyright. They can be physically fixed. A cracked manifold can be welded or replaced. But when fixing a modern electronic system you must have the permission of the manufacturer before replacing a part, or even opening some boxes. Any mechanic can see leaking hydraulic fluid. But modern electronic systems can require special/expensive tools just to read the error code telling you which part has failed.
- fho 5y ago
  Next up: John Deere invents a hydraulic rights managment (HRM) system that implements a communication protocol between hydraulic components using high frequency pressure changes in the hydraulic lines. These signals are interpreted by mechanical/hydraulic processing units to p̵r̵e̵v̵e̵n̵t̵ ̵t̵a̵m̵p̵e̵r̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵w̵i̵t̵h̵ ensure the quality of the product.
  - voakbasda 5y ago
    Don’t give them ideas. They have proven themselves willing to screw their customers. Don’t give them another way to extort us.

JamisonM 5y ago

Isn't using J1939 just an example of them embracing an industry standard? That stuff is everywhere now, right?

jet_32951 5y ago
It is how you embrace J1939 that makes the difference. In a J1939 dataframe two data words are defined: one open, the other proprietary. The proprietary word can be, and is with JD's implementation, encrypted. Therefore, anything actuated by the proprietary word is operable iff you have the key.
- JamisonM 5y ago
  Thanks!