3 ms·

I don't know about "we" and I can't speak for the rest of the world, but in the United States one of the more pervasive problems I see is a lack of second- and

I don't know about "we" and I can't speak for the rest of the world, but in the United States one of the more pervasive problems I see is a lack of second- and third- and Nth-order thinking about problems. Just as an example: I live in an urban area and generally take public transportation, but for many reasons having a car would be a good idea. So I buy a car. First-order effect: my monthly payments go up; going further faster is easier; I can get more groceries at once Second-order effect: because payments went up, I have less money for other fun things; because I can go further, faster, I drive more often; because I can get more groceries at once, I save money by buying in bulk Third-order effect: because I have less money for other things, I stay home more often; because I drive more often, I'm walking less and therefore burning fewer calories; by buying in bulk, I have more food on-hand at home Fourth-order effect: because I stay home more often AND I have more food on hand AND I walk less, I gain weight Fifth-order effect: weight gain leads to worsening self-esteem, higher risk factors for disease, needing new clothes (and Nth order of less money again!) But most people just stop at the first one and then are shocked and have to deal with the consequences of their own actions because they didn't think things through. Not to get political or anything, but think about what people say about these issues: - anti-vaxx positions ("my freedom!" -> nth-order effect of "my choice kills other people") - anti-choice positions ("ban killing babies" -> nth-order effects might be: increased poverty, increased populations in schools, fewer taxpayer dollars to go around) - NIMBYism ("not in my back yard" -> gentrification, eventual collapse of unsustainable economy where poor are priced out) - labor shortages (and so on) - various forms of government (and so on) If people were more likely to think about the Nth-order effects of their actions, I firmly believe we'd be in a better place. So how do we teach this kind of thinking to more people? I'm not entirely sure, but my best idea right now is to teach everyone how to play chess. Anyway, it's something I think about quite frequently. If only my cousin could see past her first instinct and grasp the consequences of her actions, her family might be less messed up.

temp234 5y ago
I'm torn about your thoughts. One part of me says: you're describing how it feels to think, and how it feels to think you're thinking more clearly than other people. There are people who have come to the opposite conclusion on every issue you raised, also due to what they see as their ability to think more steps ahead than the average person. I also think there's something seductive about characterizing suffering people as shocked. If only it were so satisfying for us, the correct ones. A lot of people do know that something in their life is limiting them, maybe even slowly killing them, but they're also not fixing the problem. Others are thinking really hard but not seeing their own suffering or cruelty at all. The idea that smart people who think deeply might still be suffering or hurting others can be a frightening idea to play with, because opening up our reality to that idea means potentially realizing that we ourselves are suffering or hurting others in a way that all our HN-quality cleverness can't save us from. It's a tender seam for "gifted kids" to start mining, there can be some half-healed wounds in there. A lot of people on here probably had to protect themselves or people they love with their minds, or still have to. I do think you describe beautifully, with the car story, how people exist now in systems that offer them an overwhelming number of choices, and how these systems are large and confusing enough that people are cut off from the consequences of their choices: maybe because their choices hurt someone else, maybe because the consequence is delayed, maybe because they just don't see clearly in the blur of everything happening. Many outcomes are dissatisfyingly murky and multi-factorial even when people are paying close attention and conducting scientific research. Thanks for your post, it made me think.

temp234 5y ago

I'm torn about your thoughts. One part of me says: you're describing how it feels to think, and how it feels to think you're thinking more clearly than other people. There are people who have come to the opposite conclusion on every issue you raised, also due to what they see as their ability to think more steps ahead than the average person. I also think there's something seductive about characterizing suffering people as shocked. If only it were so satisfying for us, the correct ones. A lot of people do know that something in their life is limiting them, maybe even slowly killing them, but they're also not fixing the problem. Others are thinking really hard but not seeing their own suffering or cruelty at all. The idea that smart people who think deeply might still be suffering or hurting others can be a frightening idea to play with, because opening up our reality to that idea means potentially realizing that we ourselves are suffering or hurting others in a way that all our HN-quality cleverness can't save us from. It's a tender seam for "gifted kids" to start mining, there can be some half-healed wounds in there. A lot of people on here probably had to protect themselves or people they love with their minds, or still have to. I do think you describe beautifully, with the car story, how people exist now in systems that offer them an overwhelming number of choices, and how these systems are large and confusing enough that people are cut off from the consequences of their choices: maybe because their choices hurt someone else, maybe because the consequence is delayed, maybe because they just don't see clearly in the blur of everything happening. Many outcomes are dissatisfyingly murky and multi-factorial even when people are paying close attention and conducting scientific research. Thanks for your post, it made me think.