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Productivity has also appeared to increase with remote work (at least at my job), yet I keep seeing articles from high-profile CEOs on how remote work is bad fo

Productivity has also appeared to increase with remote work (at least at my job), yet I keep seeing articles from high-profile CEOs on how remote work is bad for business. I'm not quite sure where all the resistance to remote work is coming from.

ripper1138 5y ago
Curious, what makes you think productivity has increased at your job? Like how are you measuring that?
- kimbernator 5y ago
  I've worked at two fairly large companies during the pandemic, and both have publicly stated that their productivity has increased as a result of WFH. I've heard a variety of measures being mentioned such as profitability, hours worked per week, and responsiveness of employees when they are needed outside of normal working hours for production issues - they found people to be much easier to reach when their home office is their office. It is clear, however that this data was gathered and released by a different part of the company than the ones that make the call on whether or not people will be required to come back in. Ultimately it's as we would expect: executive leadership deciding to pull people back in has little to do with data and more to do with feelings. Despite publishing that data and overwhelming support for full-time WFH, both have begun the process of pulling people back in.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    "Ultimately it's as we would expect: executive leadership deciding to pull people back in has little to do with data and more to do with feelings." One of the few things the far left has been right about all along: it is not a meritocracy, it is all about perception and feelings.
    - rlewkov 5y ago
      From what I see and hear the work-in-the-office rule is, for the most part, cause I (mgt) say so
  - cutenewt 5y ago
    I've seen a lot of data that shows hours per week have gone up, but hours isn't necessarily productivity.
  - Cookingboy 5y ago
    >such as profitability, hours worked per week, and responsiveness of employees when they are needed outside of normal working hours for production issues I'm sorry none of those are direct indication of productivity per se, even profitability, which is a long lagging indicator of productivity.
- josiahsiegel 5y ago
  It's not an exact science, but based on our team's velocity which is tracked in Jira, we appear to complete more units of work while remote...but of course there are likely numerous factors to consider.
- spamizbad 5y ago
  Anecdotally, we've seen more velocity in Jira from the same engineers - about 20% more. However, I've also noticed people are working more hours, which is more challenging to quantify. Hour-by-hour productivity may be a wash. Regardless, more stuff is getting done, and employee sentiment seems to remain the same as pre/post pandemic.
ashtonkem 5y ago
I think you'll find that it makes sense if you begin imagining non-productivity reasons why execs want workers back. Sunk cost fallacy over an expensive office is a regular guess, personally I suspect that it's got to be quite a rush to see hundreds of people working at your direction in an office and remote work cannot replace that. That or bad management techniques work better in person.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  It's astonishing how unified the message is, across big tech and smaller tech leaderships. It's like every CEO is reading a script from the same business magazine: "We understand how important it is for employees to return to the office and we can't wait to make this happen! We know that this is the One True Way to work, and that everyone is looking forward to it! We must get Back To Normal and the only way to do it is to get bodies in offices." How many of us have heard variations of this script in our own internal memos? I've never seen all of Corporate America's CxO-level Leadership so aligned with each other on a topic like they are aligned on Return To Office being the only logical way...
  - PixelOfDeath 5y ago
    Maybe the are used to collect all the suffering by sitting over the main office with all its cubicles. Maybe they are afraid of a way more aggressive competition for workers and what they have to pay them. Considering they now could switch the workplace via different login credentials.
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    What alternative hypotheses have you considered and dismissed to explain why so many CEOs agree on this approach?
    - rodgerd 5y ago
      There exists an area of study emerging in economics covering the effect of companies being directed by a small number of shareholders - for example, if the key stakeholders of all US airlines are (for the sake of the argument) Black Rock, then what effect does that have on the companies? If they same shareholder selects the same sort of execs for all their airlines in their portfolio, how does that affect the strategies for each company? If Delta loses share but United gains it and you've got a similar shareholding in both, what difference does it make. If significant investors have heavy positions in commercial and residential real estate in particular locations, and also has a significant position in companies who employ workers in those locations, how might that change the perception of how your employer does business? Will support a CEO taking a position that tanks their real estate positions?
jdhn 5y ago
I think that part of the resistance is that if you have people who work remote, the bonds you build with the company and your coworkers can potentially be less strong than if you were there in person. This may make it easier for employees to job hop. Another reason could be real estate related. If you signed a long term commercial lease right before covid hit, you want to make sure that you're getting your moneys worth.
- harshaw 5y ago
  Yes, as a hiring manager I have seen this. There is certainly less friction to moving jobs when all you do is show up on a different video call the next monday. However, I would argue that there is certainly something lost in the personal interaction. While we've been individually productive during the pandemic, more complicated design/brainstorming has been slower. Also, part of the human experience is that bond. fellowship with your team if you will.
  - ethanpailes 5y ago
    > more complicated design/brainstorming has been slower Could you say a little more about why you feel this to be the case? I haven't noticed much slowdown at all.
jdavis703 5y ago
They may be measuring productivity wrong. People may be working. But are they working on the right things and solving the problems correctly? For example, is creativity and genuine cross-team collaboration suffering? Those are much harder to measure, and at certain companies like startups that have ill-defined processes, these may be breaking down. Again, I’m not saying this with certainty. But perhaps this could be one view from the C-suite.
rodgerd 5y ago
> I'm not quite sure where all the resistance to remote work is coming from. You are assuming that the people who make decisions are somehow more rational than anyone else.

ripper1138 5y ago

Curious, what makes you think productivity has increased at your job? Like how are you measuring that?

kimbernator 5y ago
I've worked at two fairly large companies during the pandemic, and both have publicly stated that their productivity has increased as a result of WFH. I've heard a variety of measures being mentioned such as profitability, hours worked per week, and responsiveness of employees when they are needed outside of normal working hours for production issues - they found people to be much easier to reach when their home office is their office. It is clear, however that this data was gathered and released by a different part of the company than the ones that make the call on whether or not people will be required to come back in. Ultimately it's as we would expect: executive leadership deciding to pull people back in has little to do with data and more to do with feelings. Despite publishing that data and overwhelming support for full-time WFH, both have begun the process of pulling people back in.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  "Ultimately it's as we would expect: executive leadership deciding to pull people back in has little to do with data and more to do with feelings." One of the few things the far left has been right about all along: it is not a meritocracy, it is all about perception and feelings.
  - rlewkov 5y ago
    From what I see and hear the work-in-the-office rule is, for the most part, cause I (mgt) say so
- cutenewt 5y ago
  I've seen a lot of data that shows hours per week have gone up, but hours isn't necessarily productivity.
- Cookingboy 5y ago
  >such as profitability, hours worked per week, and responsiveness of employees when they are needed outside of normal working hours for production issues I'm sorry none of those are direct indication of productivity per se, even profitability, which is a long lagging indicator of productivity.
josiahsiegel 5y ago
It's not an exact science, but based on our team's velocity which is tracked in Jira, we appear to complete more units of work while remote...but of course there are likely numerous factors to consider.
spamizbad 5y ago
Anecdotally, we've seen more velocity in Jira from the same engineers - about 20% more. However, I've also noticed people are working more hours, which is more challenging to quantify. Hour-by-hour productivity may be a wash. Regardless, more stuff is getting done, and employee sentiment seems to remain the same as pre/post pandemic.

ashtonkem 5y ago

I think you'll find that it makes sense if you begin imagining non-productivity reasons why execs want workers back. Sunk cost fallacy over an expensive office is a regular guess, personally I suspect that it's got to be quite a rush to see hundreds of people working at your direction in an office and remote work cannot replace that. That or bad management techniques work better in person.

ryandrake 5y ago
It's astonishing how unified the message is, across big tech and smaller tech leaderships. It's like every CEO is reading a script from the same business magazine: "We understand how important it is for employees to return to the office and we can't wait to make this happen! We know that this is the One True Way to work, and that everyone is looking forward to it! We must get Back To Normal and the only way to do it is to get bodies in offices." How many of us have heard variations of this script in our own internal memos? I've never seen all of Corporate America's CxO-level Leadership so aligned with each other on a topic like they are aligned on Return To Office being the only logical way...
- PixelOfDeath 5y ago
  Maybe the are used to collect all the suffering by sitting over the main office with all its cubicles. Maybe they are afraid of a way more aggressive competition for workers and what they have to pay them. Considering they now could switch the workplace via different login credentials.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  What alternative hypotheses have you considered and dismissed to explain why so many CEOs agree on this approach?
  - rodgerd 5y ago
    There exists an area of study emerging in economics covering the effect of companies being directed by a small number of shareholders - for example, if the key stakeholders of all US airlines are (for the sake of the argument) Black Rock, then what effect does that have on the companies? If they same shareholder selects the same sort of execs for all their airlines in their portfolio, how does that affect the strategies for each company? If Delta loses share but United gains it and you've got a similar shareholding in both, what difference does it make. If significant investors have heavy positions in commercial and residential real estate in particular locations, and also has a significant position in companies who employ workers in those locations, how might that change the perception of how your employer does business? Will support a CEO taking a position that tanks their real estate positions?

jdhn 5y ago

I think that part of the resistance is that if you have people who work remote, the bonds you build with the company and your coworkers can potentially be less strong than if you were there in person. This may make it easier for employees to job hop. Another reason could be real estate related. If you signed a long term commercial lease right before covid hit, you want to make sure that you're getting your moneys worth.

harshaw 5y ago
Yes, as a hiring manager I have seen this. There is certainly less friction to moving jobs when all you do is show up on a different video call the next monday. However, I would argue that there is certainly something lost in the personal interaction. While we've been individually productive during the pandemic, more complicated design/brainstorming has been slower. Also, part of the human experience is that bond. fellowship with your team if you will.
- ethanpailes 5y ago
  > more complicated design/brainstorming has been slower Could you say a little more about why you feel this to be the case? I haven't noticed much slowdown at all.

jdavis703 5y ago

They may be measuring productivity wrong. People may be working. But are they working on the right things and solving the problems correctly? For example, is creativity and genuine cross-team collaboration suffering? Those are much harder to measure, and at certain companies like startups that have ill-defined processes, these may be breaking down. Again, I’m not saying this with certainty. But perhaps this could be one view from the C-suite.

rodgerd 5y ago

> I'm not quite sure where all the resistance to remote work is coming from. You are assuming that the people who make decisions are somehow more rational than anyone else.