5 ms·

So, on reading this I imagine that this is purely for "mature" process nodes, and not definitely for cutting-edge nodes, plus the fact that some of the semicond

So, on reading this I imagine that this is purely for "mature" process nodes, and not definitely for cutting-edge nodes, plus the fact that some of the semiconductor infrastructure is already there, so 7 billion US dollars might be in the correct ballpark. Well, at least Japanese manufacturers (probably more of automobile suppliers like Denso rather than Sony's mobile division) will have a domestic source.

simonh 5y ago
Wikipedia lists about a hundred fabs in Japan already. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabricat... This might not achieve the very latest cutting edge nodes, but there are diminishing returns for going very far down-node.
- troymc 5y ago
  The article says, "Japanese chipmakers had dropped out of the race for large-scale chip development by the 2010s and instead contracted out the production of cutting-edge semiconductors to companies like TSMC." and the new plant "would be TSMC's first chip production operation in Japan".
  - simonh 5y ago
    Sure, but the basic infrastructure needed to support fabs is still there.
- zinekeller 5y ago
  Yes, I knew that, but the chip crunch also affected mature nodes, so the capacity for mature nodes is also clearly not enough.
wavefunction 5y ago
Somebody needs to build cutting-edge node fabs given the rhetoric from China in the past few days regarding forced "reunification" with China.
- theteapot 5y ago
  Past few days? Where have you been for the last 70 odd years? Difference lately is it's become more credible for bunch of reasons around politics and capability.
- dragonelite 5y ago
  Taking over Taiwan will not give China cutting edge node fabs. TSMC is working on a western equipment plus chemical stack. So it will give China absolutely nothing, China is rich enough to make Taiwanese talent offers they can't resist. So much so that Taiwan had to shut down Chinese recruitment bureaus and certain Taiwanese talent are not allowed travel or exit the country. China can just bide its time they will be the biggest economy at the end of the decade that will psychologically change the world so much regarding the West and Asia. You can already see a disconnect between western and Asian elites/diplomats view on China and the Region. Why Western ASEAN anti-china recruitment the last few years failed really hard.
  - throw0101a 5y ago
    > China can just bide its time they will be the biggest economy at the end of the decade that will psychologically change the world so much regarding the West and Asia. Does this take into account China's demographics? Will be to able to 'grow rich before it grows old'?
    - dragonelite 5y ago
      I'm not a demographer, so only time will tell how big of a problem it will become. The Chinese government is worried about it, already was couple of years ago. But I don't see it becoming a roadblock that will prevent China from becoming the biggest economy in the world, hell I wouldn't be surprised that the Chinese market will be twice that of the combined western market. China can always play the Asian immigration card. To soften the blow of a graying demographic.
      - HKH2 5y ago
Zigurd 5y ago
There are levels of "mature." Many chip plants, some of which were built to nurture home grown tech, have fallen far short of what is old hat to TSMC.
- hinkley 5y ago
  With the rise of Tata, India, the US and Japan all have substantial automotive concerns that might be very interested in their suppliers having shorter supply chains. Especially after the black eye they've already gotten. Expect automotive lobbyists to be smoothing the way for these agreements to get approval from the respective State Departments.
deaddodo 5y ago
By mature, they probably mean 7nm or even 5nm. Semiconductor manufacturers are always keeping old nodes spun up for technology that doesn’t require (or wouldn’t even function properly) on smaller nodes. Spinning up a 7nm/5nm fab allows them to free up their flagship fab for 3nm.
hinkley 5y ago
It's very likely at this point that the next 'mature' process from TSMC will still be interesting from a competitive landscape sense. If the timeline works out so that the current node gets built in a few years in Japan or India, that won't be 'cutting edge' but it'll still be pretty sharp, if some other fabs don't get their shit together and soon.
davidjytang 5y ago
What the world has in shortage is those mature process.

simonh 5y ago

Wikipedia lists about a hundred fabs in Japan already. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabricat... This might not achieve the very latest cutting edge nodes, but there are diminishing returns for going very far down-node.

troymc 5y ago
The article says, "Japanese chipmakers had dropped out of the race for large-scale chip development by the 2010s and instead contracted out the production of cutting-edge semiconductors to companies like TSMC." and the new plant "would be TSMC's first chip production operation in Japan".
- simonh 5y ago
  Sure, but the basic infrastructure needed to support fabs is still there.
zinekeller 5y ago
Yes, I knew that, but the chip crunch also affected mature nodes, so the capacity for mature nodes is also clearly not enough.

wavefunction 5y ago

Somebody needs to build cutting-edge node fabs given the rhetoric from China in the past few days regarding forced "reunification" with China.

theteapot 5y ago
Past few days? Where have you been for the last 70 odd years? Difference lately is it's become more credible for bunch of reasons around politics and capability.
dragonelite 5y ago
Taking over Taiwan will not give China cutting edge node fabs. TSMC is working on a western equipment plus chemical stack. So it will give China absolutely nothing, China is rich enough to make Taiwanese talent offers they can't resist. So much so that Taiwan had to shut down Chinese recruitment bureaus and certain Taiwanese talent are not allowed travel or exit the country. China can just bide its time they will be the biggest economy at the end of the decade that will psychologically change the world so much regarding the West and Asia. You can already see a disconnect between western and Asian elites/diplomats view on China and the Region. Why Western ASEAN anti-china recruitment the last few years failed really hard.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > China can just bide its time they will be the biggest economy at the end of the decade that will psychologically change the world so much regarding the West and Asia. Does this take into account China's demographics? Will be to able to 'grow rich before it grows old'?
  - dragonelite 5y ago
    I'm not a demographer, so only time will tell how big of a problem it will become. The Chinese government is worried about it, already was couple of years ago. But I don't see it becoming a roadblock that will prevent China from becoming the biggest economy in the world, hell I wouldn't be surprised that the Chinese market will be twice that of the combined western market. China can always play the Asian immigration card. To soften the blow of a graying demographic.
    - HKH2 5y ago

Zigurd 5y ago

There are levels of "mature." Many chip plants, some of which were built to nurture home grown tech, have fallen far short of what is old hat to TSMC.

hinkley 5y ago
With the rise of Tata, India, the US and Japan all have substantial automotive concerns that might be very interested in their suppliers having shorter supply chains. Especially after the black eye they've already gotten. Expect automotive lobbyists to be smoothing the way for these agreements to get approval from the respective State Departments.

deaddodo 5y ago

By mature, they probably mean 7nm or even 5nm. Semiconductor manufacturers are always keeping old nodes spun up for technology that doesn’t require (or wouldn’t even function properly) on smaller nodes. Spinning up a 7nm/5nm fab allows them to free up their flagship fab for 3nm.

hinkley 5y ago

It's very likely at this point that the next 'mature' process from TSMC will still be interesting from a competitive landscape sense. If the timeline works out so that the current node gets built in a few years in Japan or India, that won't be 'cutting edge' but it'll still be pretty sharp, if some other fabs don't get their shit together and soon.

davidjytang 5y ago

What the world has in shortage is those mature process.