4 ms·

the west is literally trying to provoke a huge war with china because china is no longer dependent on the west's intellectual property. your framing seems ignor

the west is literally trying to provoke a huge war with china because china is no longer dependent on the west's intellectual property. your framing seems ignorant to me. Vijay Prashad: What's the Left to Do in a World on Fire? | China and the Left, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd8w3ONjv6Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd8w3ONjv6Y Vijay Prashad: No Cold War with China, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj1ggllXmws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj1ggllXmws

Ericson2314 5y ago
I feel like tractors are like AK-47s, kinda de facto grandfathered in before Neo-liberalism and Globalization made exporting IP law a big part part of of geopolitics.
- lazide 5y ago
  Basic tractors, like the AK-47, are also designable by most decent mechanical engineering students without a lot of work if they spent an afternoon googling first for prior art (and that prior art has long had any patents expire). Which if there is an ecosystem related to this, that’s great as the manufacturing is where you need economies of scale pretty badly and everyone benefits from it. There is no also no need for a basic excavator to cost $30k or more. Let’s do something about that too!
  - coding123 5y ago
    https://www.harborfreight.com/9-hp-towable-backhoe-62365.html https://www.harborfreight.com/9-hp-towable-backhoe-62365.htm... You said basic. :shrug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fK6EtRXqS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fK6EtRXqS4
    - lazide 5y ago
      I'm not sure if it counts as an 'excavator' (towed digger maybe?), but that is still pretty neat. Thanks for the link.
  - Ericson2314 5y ago
    Look, I really want open source to meet the "real world", and not be stuck as another "socialism for the rich" where companies can do things on the cheap but the software is useless to the average person as an alternative to anything. (Great example: Google using Linux in Android does not mean the user is any more free of advertizing and spying!) But unless I misunderstand what this is for, I think the economies of scale needed are in way fancier things like combine harvesters. When farmers decry the rent-seeking of John Deere, I don't think they are talking about basic tractor-bulldozers? Conversely, as the other replies say, there is little issue with decades-old-style tractors, right? What I really want to see is an open source Khrushchyovka. The worlds needs more cities, not villages.
    - lazide 5y ago
      I think you’re right, and doing some more digging this seems if anything a somewhat useless engineer-wouldn’t-it-be-cool type project that isn’t solving any of the real problems that people face. Sigh.
      - Ericson2314 5y ago
        On the more positive side, maybe some things in here are necessary first steps, and best get to more useful things later building upon them. I am not sure, I didn't dig to deep yet.
jcims 5y ago
You’re making oblique references and (I guess?) assuming that some conclusion is obvious. A more direct statement of your point might help here.
- beckman466 5y ago
  > A more direct statement of your point might help here. abolish Silicon Valley. [1] [1] Wendy Liu, https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/abolish-silicon-valley https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/abolish-silicon-valley
  - SuoDuanDao 5y ago
    There is a school of economics that claims to oppose the upwardly mobile rich but in fact mostly harms the upwardly mobile poor. Linguistic patterns are no proof of motive but they certainly indicate who an author is writing for.
    - jcims 5y ago
      the twang is strong
  - jcims 5y ago
    shoot your shot buddy!
    - beckman466 5y ago
      “We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art, and very often in our art, the art of words.” ― Ursula K. Le Guin
WhisperingShiba 5y ago
This is a controversial opinion, but I agree. The global west is realizing it done goofed up; because China does not give a shit about IP and now has the intellectual capability to successfully produce new products which compete with US product. The good news is that China's economy is actually a bigger mess than ours somehow, despite our limited means of production. Everyone is too scared of nuclear war, but the actual war is a strange economic war of 'Who is going to collapse first'.
- thechao 5y ago
  Isn't this the same situation that the USA eventually found itself in with respect to the USSR? I think the whole cold war can be re-envisioned as a socioeconomic conflict.
  - WhisperingShiba 5y ago
    I believe it so as well. I was just reinforcing that I don't believe conventional war can occur without a major technological innovation in missile defense. It all comes down to sociology-economics, which is in turn downstream of culture. Neither the USA or China have close to optimal culture, but even accounting for western propaganda, the United States is a much happier place. Source: I met many Chinese people in college. Many of them were striving for success with such fervor because they wanted to stay in America.
    - bllguo 5y ago
      1. selection bias 2. depending on when you went to college, your experience could be out of date surprised you would make such definitive statements on something as hard to measure as happiness, without better sources
      - WhisperingShiba 5y ago
        Would you rather live in China, than the USA? Not attacking, I am genuinely curious about what you think. From the outside looking in, it seems like people are overworked, overcrowded and rather unequal. Also they have a lot of pollution in many areas.

Ericson2314 5y ago

I feel like tractors are like AK-47s, kinda de facto grandfathered in before Neo-liberalism and Globalization made exporting IP law a big part part of of geopolitics.

lazide 5y ago
Basic tractors, like the AK-47, are also designable by most decent mechanical engineering students without a lot of work if they spent an afternoon googling first for prior art (and that prior art has long had any patents expire). Which if there is an ecosystem related to this, that’s great as the manufacturing is where you need economies of scale pretty badly and everyone benefits from it. There is no also no need for a basic excavator to cost $30k or more. Let’s do something about that too!
- coding123 5y ago
  https://www.harborfreight.com/9-hp-towable-backhoe-62365.html https://www.harborfreight.com/9-hp-towable-backhoe-62365.htm... You said basic. :shrug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fK6EtRXqS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fK6EtRXqS4
  - lazide 5y ago
    I'm not sure if it counts as an 'excavator' (towed digger maybe?), but that is still pretty neat. Thanks for the link.
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  Look, I really want open source to meet the "real world", and not be stuck as another "socialism for the rich" where companies can do things on the cheap but the software is useless to the average person as an alternative to anything. (Great example: Google using Linux in Android does not mean the user is any more free of advertizing and spying!) But unless I misunderstand what this is for, I think the economies of scale needed are in way fancier things like combine harvesters. When farmers decry the rent-seeking of John Deere, I don't think they are talking about basic tractor-bulldozers? Conversely, as the other replies say, there is little issue with decades-old-style tractors, right? What I really want to see is an open source Khrushchyovka. The worlds needs more cities, not villages.
  - lazide 5y ago
    I think you’re right, and doing some more digging this seems if anything a somewhat useless engineer-wouldn’t-it-be-cool type project that isn’t solving any of the real problems that people face. Sigh.
    - Ericson2314 5y ago
      On the more positive side, maybe some things in here are necessary first steps, and best get to more useful things later building upon them. I am not sure, I didn't dig to deep yet.

jcims 5y ago

You’re making oblique references and (I guess?) assuming that some conclusion is obvious. A more direct statement of your point might help here.

beckman466 5y ago
> A more direct statement of your point might help here. abolish Silicon Valley. [1] [1] Wendy Liu, https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/abolish-silicon-valley https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/abolish-silicon-valley
- SuoDuanDao 5y ago
  There is a school of economics that claims to oppose the upwardly mobile rich but in fact mostly harms the upwardly mobile poor. Linguistic patterns are no proof of motive but they certainly indicate who an author is writing for.
  - jcims 5y ago
    the twang is strong
- jcims 5y ago
  shoot your shot buddy!
  - beckman466 5y ago
    “We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art, and very often in our art, the art of words.” ― Ursula K. Le Guin

WhisperingShiba 5y ago

This is a controversial opinion, but I agree. The global west is realizing it done goofed up; because China does not give a shit about IP and now has the intellectual capability to successfully produce new products which compete with US product. The good news is that China's economy is actually a bigger mess than ours somehow, despite our limited means of production. Everyone is too scared of nuclear war, but the actual war is a strange economic war of 'Who is going to collapse first'.

thechao 5y ago
Isn't this the same situation that the USA eventually found itself in with respect to the USSR? I think the whole cold war can be re-envisioned as a socioeconomic conflict.
- WhisperingShiba 5y ago
  I believe it so as well. I was just reinforcing that I don't believe conventional war can occur without a major technological innovation in missile defense. It all comes down to sociology-economics, which is in turn downstream of culture. Neither the USA or China have close to optimal culture, but even accounting for western propaganda, the United States is a much happier place. Source: I met many Chinese people in college. Many of them were striving for success with such fervor because they wanted to stay in America.
  - bllguo 5y ago
    1. selection bias 2. depending on when you went to college, your experience could be out of date surprised you would make such definitive statements on something as hard to measure as happiness, without better sources
    - WhisperingShiba 5y ago
      Would you rather live in China, than the USA? Not attacking, I am genuinely curious about what you think. From the outside looking in, it seems like people are overworked, overcrowded and rather unequal. Also they have a lot of pollution in many areas.