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> an environment that's on the brink of collapse This is such a skewed PoV of the world today. In so many ways the world is the best it's ever been: Poverty, v

> an environment that's on the brink of collapse This is such a skewed PoV of the world today. In so many ways the world is the best it's ever been: Poverty, violent crime, etc. (the list really does go on and on). This is especially true if you live in a developed nation. So I'm not really sure what you think a child will have to "endure" aside from all of the great joys life can bring! We can even just focus on climate change. The "worst case scenario" most scientist project isn't really even that bad. Sure there will be worst weather events etc., but society isn't going to "collapse". And what about you? If society "collapsed' in your lifetime, would you really rather have not lived at all? I'm not suggesting your anxiety about the current state affairs isn't the motivation for your decision (although it is a convenient scapegoat), rather, that your anxiety may not be all that rational and you may want to revisit your decision from time to time!

klyrs 5y ago
You paint a rosy picture of today, but I'm concerned about the future. Among other things, I expect my kid to see the gulf stream to collapse, and a blue ocean event. Just this year, my area saw an unprecedented heat wave that killed hundreds of people; this is expected to get worse in the years to come. I never had to stay inside during the summer, my kid might need to spend weeks indoors before high school (four days this year). I'm not ready to predict that entire summers will be that dangerous in the pacific northwest, but maybe so in hotter climes. Politically, the US seems to be gearing up for civil war. Global warming might rapidly flip to an ice age. International conflicts are warming up, and the saber-rattling between the US, Russia, China, and various parties in the middle east is reaching a tenor that's unprecedented in my lifetime. If we have a chance at reversing the climate disaster, it will take an unprecedented level of international cooperation, and I just don't believe that citizens or politicians are ready to get their collective shit together. > ... your anxiety may not be all that rational and you may want to revisit your decision from time to time! The die has been cast. I can no longer procreate. I did revisit my decision, and I'm glad to be a (step) parent. If I want more kids, fostering is an option. You might want to reconsider your optimism from time to time, shit's getting real and we don't have a brake pedal.
- kingdomcome50 5y ago
  Eh... Literally every generation thinks the world is going to shit. And yet here we are! In school, my father had to operate his class's Geiger counter while practicing huddling under his desk in fear of a nuclear attack. Then after graduating he got drafted (DRAFTED!!!) into the hell-scape that was Vietnam. I respect your decision, but you and I? We don't have it so bad.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    > you and I? We don't have it so bad. Still talking past the point, eh? I'm doing fine. I'm concerned about the world that my children, and my grandchildren will live in. I'll be quite old, probably dead, by the time that we're projected to see the collapse of the gulf stream, blue ocean event, +4C, etc, but I'll live to meet the people who will want to survive through those events. We nailed the Ozone Layer catastrophe. It required worldwide collaboration, but we did it. We're already seeing lethal effects of climate change, and nobody in power seems to give a fuck like they did before. But yeah, I don't have it so bad. Never said I didn't. I'm thinking about 100-200 years down the line; you keep telling me about how great things are today.
    - kingdomcome50 5y ago
      > I'm doing fine. Precisely! My point is that my (or your) grandparents/parents could have held the same sentiments you are holding now. And they would have been wrong. > I'm thinking about 100-200 years down the line Your children will not be alive in 100-200 years so your point is also moot. Unfortunately, I believe you believe what you are saying will come to pass and it will be "society collapsing". I don't. No point in arguing about it any further. Message me in 100-200 years to say "I told you so".
      - klyrs 5y ago
        > Your children will not be alive in 100-200 years so your point is also moot. Wow, you really love attacking strawmen don't you? No wonder you're such an optimist.
JohnFen 5y ago
Things being the best they've ever been and being on the brink of collapse are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it's not even rare, historically speaking. We're literally watching the world burn around us.

klyrs 5y ago

You paint a rosy picture of today, but I'm concerned about the future. Among other things, I expect my kid to see the gulf stream to collapse, and a blue ocean event. Just this year, my area saw an unprecedented heat wave that killed hundreds of people; this is expected to get worse in the years to come. I never had to stay inside during the summer, my kid might need to spend weeks indoors before high school (four days this year). I'm not ready to predict that entire summers will be that dangerous in the pacific northwest, but maybe so in hotter climes. Politically, the US seems to be gearing up for civil war. Global warming might rapidly flip to an ice age. International conflicts are warming up, and the saber-rattling between the US, Russia, China, and various parties in the middle east is reaching a tenor that's unprecedented in my lifetime. If we have a chance at reversing the climate disaster, it will take an unprecedented level of international cooperation, and I just don't believe that citizens or politicians are ready to get their collective shit together. > ... your anxiety may not be all that rational and you may want to revisit your decision from time to time! The die has been cast. I can no longer procreate. I did revisit my decision, and I'm glad to be a (step) parent. If I want more kids, fostering is an option. You might want to reconsider your optimism from time to time, shit's getting real and we don't have a brake pedal.

kingdomcome50 5y ago
Eh... Literally every generation thinks the world is going to shit. And yet here we are! In school, my father had to operate his class's Geiger counter while practicing huddling under his desk in fear of a nuclear attack. Then after graduating he got drafted (DRAFTED!!!) into the hell-scape that was Vietnam. I respect your decision, but you and I? We don't have it so bad.
- klyrs 5y ago
  > you and I? We don't have it so bad. Still talking past the point, eh? I'm doing fine. I'm concerned about the world that my children, and my grandchildren will live in. I'll be quite old, probably dead, by the time that we're projected to see the collapse of the gulf stream, blue ocean event, +4C, etc, but I'll live to meet the people who will want to survive through those events. We nailed the Ozone Layer catastrophe. It required worldwide collaboration, but we did it. We're already seeing lethal effects of climate change, and nobody in power seems to give a fuck like they did before. But yeah, I don't have it so bad. Never said I didn't. I'm thinking about 100-200 years down the line; you keep telling me about how great things are today.
  - kingdomcome50 5y ago
    > I'm doing fine. Precisely! My point is that my (or your) grandparents/parents could have held the same sentiments you are holding now. And they would have been wrong. > I'm thinking about 100-200 years down the line Your children will not be alive in 100-200 years so your point is also moot. Unfortunately, I believe you believe what you are saying will come to pass and it will be "society collapsing". I don't. No point in arguing about it any further. Message me in 100-200 years to say "I told you so".
    - klyrs 5y ago
      > Your children will not be alive in 100-200 years so your point is also moot. Wow, you really love attacking strawmen don't you? No wonder you're such an optimist.

JohnFen 5y ago

Things being the best they've ever been and being on the brink of collapse are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it's not even rare, historically speaking. We're literally watching the world burn around us.