3 ms·

This is goalpoast-moving. You should include the average payout of retirement planning in the private sector, for comparison. I will be shocked if we find a sub

by bsanr 5y ago

This is goalpoast-moving. You should include the average payout of retirement planning in the private sector, for comparison. I will be shocked if we find a substantial difference, or advantage to the teachers. >Many lower quality teachers successfully avoid much or all of that unpaid work, especially in situations where they have strong job protections (tenure) We'll need citation for this too.

kyleee 5y ago
It's just part of the total comp calculation so it's a no-brainer to include in a good comparison. And defined benefit plans are quite desireable and becoming rarer, and have tended to be more stable in the case of market downturns. On the citation question, I don't have more to provide than experience from relatives who are teachers. It's quite well known that many bad teachers are quite entrenched, and those that realize their level of employment protection thread a good needle in terms of avoiding unpaid labor. It just requires caring about the job and results less, and many situations can push teachers towards feeling this way such as burnout (which can come from earnestly trying too hard and suffering from too many unpaid hours grading, etc.), the fact that there is basically no monetary incentive for good performance (everyone's on the same pay ladder generally based on level of education + years teaching), dysfunctional administration (at the school and/or district level), lack of good colleagues, etc.
- bsanr 5y ago
  I want you to understand how terribly unconvincing this is. You seem to have an agenda, but not necessarily the facts to support it, so you're engaging with hand-wave-y generalization and, "Just trust me"-level rhetoric. This conversation began with concrete numbers, and if you want the initial presumption to stand you're going to have to end with them, too.

3 ms·

This is goalpoast-moving. You should include the average payout of retirement planning in the private sector, for comparison. I will be shocked if we find a sub

by bsanr 5y ago

kyleee 5y ago
It's just part of the total comp calculation so it's a no-brainer to include in a good comparison. And defined benefit plans are quite desireable and becoming rarer, and have tended to be more stable in the case of market downturns. On the citation question, I don't have more to provide than experience from relatives who are teachers. It's quite well known that many bad teachers are quite entrenched, and those that realize their level of employment protection thread a good needle in terms of avoiding unpaid labor. It just requires caring about the job and results less, and many situations can push teachers towards feeling this way such as burnout (which can come from earnestly trying too hard and suffering from too many unpaid hours grading, etc.), the fact that there is basically no monetary incentive for good performance (everyone's on the same pay ladder generally based on level of education + years teaching), dysfunctional administration (at the school and/or district level), lack of good colleagues, etc.
- bsanr 5y ago
  I want you to understand how terribly unconvincing this is. You seem to have an agenda, but not necessarily the facts to support it, so you're engaging with hand-wave-y generalization and, "Just trust me"-level rhetoric. This conversation began with concrete numbers, and if you want the initial presumption to stand you're going to have to end with them, too.