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Can't help but feel there's got to be a connection to school shootings here. Perhaps American teens are canaries in a coal mine, where the 'coal mine' is Americ

Can't help but feel there's got to be a connection to school shootings here. Perhaps American teens are canaries in a coal mine, where the 'coal mine' is American culture at home, at school, and on the 'net, and the dangerous gasses are those of cruelty, hatred, anger, violence, and fear. Teens are going through a lot, individuating and becoming adults, yet they live in the same confusing stew we all do now, and do not have the tools to deal with these unprecedented cultural toxins. IMO these re-education camps are problematic, even when done "correctly", because they don't address the underlying cause of teen misery. And in fact they do more harm than good, for the simple reason that the teen is held accountable for our systemic failures. It is the parents' philosophy of rugged individualism acted out for profit using children as guinea pigs.

bsanr 5y ago
Another post in the thread questioned why this happens in otherwise "civilized and enlightened" societies. My personal response - because we're not - lead me down a train of thought to Adam Lanza, the Newtown shooter. The common thread is a lack of mutual oversight, accountability, and responsibility for others in our communities. Civilization is a wonderful thing that enables any number of deep and extensive value-adds to quality of life for any given individual member of our species, but the specialization inherent in a free society means that people are trusted to attend to their own affairs (and in the case of hierarchy, the affairs of their charges). As a society, we share responsibility and consequences for the outcomes determined by the actions of individuals. This is the reason that the limits of individual freedom are somewhere in between the capacity and the demonstrated ability to infringe on the rights of others. What seems to have happened is dereliction of the duty to shape those limits in response to demonstrated infringement in the past. We know - we know - what the status quo wrt, as examples, the penal system and firearms has meant for individual and collective suffering. What you're feeling is the same sense that we're not learning from the past and dooming ourselves to gory, nightmarish repetition.
- javajosh 5y ago
  It's hard to grow your own patch of peace and wisdom when everyone around you is growing nettles and brambles. Even if others don't directly interfere, it's only easy to acquire the supplies that the majority is buying. And life is already a lot of work, and it's so damn tempting to just give up and go with the flow - not only is it less work, but you get a sense of community. Even if it is a community of shared dysfunction, it's better than being alone. It seems there's got to be a threshold, a critical mass of people who want to live differently than the rest before you can weather the challenges inherent in making non-mainstream choices. This is widely applicable; AA comes to mind, as does things like vegetarianism, homosexuality, Judaism, etc. There should be an -ism for the people who reject authoritarianism blind conformism, and who have a well-defined set of coping mechanisms to deal with misinformation, bullying, cruelty, and dehumanization. And ways to deal with people that embrace such techniques, especially those in power.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
    You’re looking for mutual aid(1), egalitarianism, and maybe humanism. 1. https://givingcompass.org/partners/ncrp/the-importance-of-grassroots-mutual-aid-networks https://givingcompass.org/partners/ncrp/the-importance-of-gr... Mutual aid is inherently local. It’s someone asking for help on Twitter or Facebook, or at work. It’s someone offering aid, or connecting someone in need to someone able and willing to help. These networks sprung up all across the country last year, mostly in big cities with large protest movements, but also among communities with strong ties. At one point in time churches and governments filled this role, however both have been derelict in their duties for many many decades.
Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
> the teen is held accountable for our systemic failures That is the crux of the matter. Anecdotally, I know a lot of former victims of the juvenile Justice system. On the one hand they’ve all demonstrated serious antisocial behaviors. On the other hand they’ve all been severely neglected (or worse) by all the people responsible for their wellbeing: parents, teachers, relatives, siblings, peers, social workers, religious leaders, etc. how can hold a Child accountable for their actions if we are unable ( read: unwilling) to hold the adults who’ve hurt them accountable for their failures? The children are not mere Guinea pigs, they’re scapegoats for their caregivers failures.

bsanr 5y ago

Another post in the thread questioned why this happens in otherwise "civilized and enlightened" societies. My personal response - because we're not - lead me down a train of thought to Adam Lanza, the Newtown shooter. The common thread is a lack of mutual oversight, accountability, and responsibility for others in our communities. Civilization is a wonderful thing that enables any number of deep and extensive value-adds to quality of life for any given individual member of our species, but the specialization inherent in a free society means that people are trusted to attend to their own affairs (and in the case of hierarchy, the affairs of their charges). As a society, we share responsibility and consequences for the outcomes determined by the actions of individuals. This is the reason that the limits of individual freedom are somewhere in between the capacity and the demonstrated ability to infringe on the rights of others. What seems to have happened is dereliction of the duty to shape those limits in response to demonstrated infringement in the past. We know - we know - what the status quo wrt, as examples, the penal system and firearms has meant for individual and collective suffering. What you're feeling is the same sense that we're not learning from the past and dooming ourselves to gory, nightmarish repetition.

javajosh 5y ago
It's hard to grow your own patch of peace and wisdom when everyone around you is growing nettles and brambles. Even if others don't directly interfere, it's only easy to acquire the supplies that the majority is buying. And life is already a lot of work, and it's so damn tempting to just give up and go with the flow - not only is it less work, but you get a sense of community. Even if it is a community of shared dysfunction, it's better than being alone. It seems there's got to be a threshold, a critical mass of people who want to live differently than the rest before you can weather the challenges inherent in making non-mainstream choices. This is widely applicable; AA comes to mind, as does things like vegetarianism, homosexuality, Judaism, etc. There should be an -ism for the people who reject authoritarianism blind conformism, and who have a well-defined set of coping mechanisms to deal with misinformation, bullying, cruelty, and dehumanization. And ways to deal with people that embrace such techniques, especially those in power.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
  You’re looking for mutual aid(1), egalitarianism, and maybe humanism. 1. https://givingcompass.org/partners/ncrp/the-importance-of-grassroots-mutual-aid-networks https://givingcompass.org/partners/ncrp/the-importance-of-gr... Mutual aid is inherently local. It’s someone asking for help on Twitter or Facebook, or at work. It’s someone offering aid, or connecting someone in need to someone able and willing to help. These networks sprung up all across the country last year, mostly in big cities with large protest movements, but also among communities with strong ties. At one point in time churches and governments filled this role, however both have been derelict in their duties for many many decades.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago

> the teen is held accountable for our systemic failures That is the crux of the matter. Anecdotally, I know a lot of former victims of the juvenile Justice system. On the one hand they’ve all demonstrated serious antisocial behaviors. On the other hand they’ve all been severely neglected (or worse) by all the people responsible for their wellbeing: parents, teachers, relatives, siblings, peers, social workers, religious leaders, etc. how can hold a Child accountable for their actions if we are unable ( read: unwilling) to hold the adults who’ve hurt them accountable for their failures? The children are not mere Guinea pigs, they’re scapegoats for their caregivers failures.