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i work on heavy equipment such as tractors, diesel trucks and excavators in the USA. this is an excellent start, but its a long way from a tractor. some of th
by nimbius 5y ago
i work on heavy equipment such as tractors, diesel trucks and excavators in the USA. this is an excellent start, but its a long way from a tractor.
some of the pitfalls that need to be addressed:
"Modular Power Unit" is undefined. can i run it on white gas? diesel? kerosene? what is the engine displacement? air cooled or liquid? If we mean to say this tractor is all-electric, keep in mind most small farms arent equipped to charge anything more advanced than a cordless drill or flashlight.
Cab frame has no safety glass or panels, so the operator enjoys every rock and every tree branch :(. a shade canopy is a nice add as well.
no lights. this is a nonstarter for every farmer that wakes up at 4 am.
quick hoses are nice, but I cant find a PTO knuckle so its restricted to things like lifting and towing (and maybe ripping). this is okay, but for an un-weatherized vehicle ill need to use barn real-estate to store, its certainly lacking.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- fineIllregister 5y agoIt's been a while since I have read up on Open Source Ecology, but my memory is that modular power unit is a stand in for several options. One option is the power cube, which is a gas engine: https://opensourceecology.dozuki.com/c/PowerCube https://opensourceecology.dozuki.com/c/PowerCube I believe that the creator of the project uses these, and has said that there are alternatives in case gas is not available.
- stooliepidgin 5y agoMarcin Jakubowski realized earlier than most that open source hardware is a deeper solution that even generous right-to-repair (R2R) protections cannot necessarily deliver.
- sixothree 5y agoIs there an issue tracker for this project? Sounds like it might need one along with your advice.
- srmatto 5y agoThe modular power unit is able to be swapped in and out of the various projects that require it that this team creates. Beyond that I don't know anything about it. There's also a compressed earth block machine and other things that use it. This team has been working on this since approximately 2011? It was started by a former nuclear engineer named Marcin Jakubowski. They're based out of Missouri and they dog-food their tools to build and maintain a small "village" there. He had a ted talk sometime ago as well: https://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski_open_sourced_blueprints_for_civilization https://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski_open_sourced_blu...
- machiaweliczny 5y agoI just wanted to comment today that beside OSS, SciHub and Library Genesis we need Blueprint Hub to move Civilizarion forward. Happy that some people work on it.
- nannal 5y agoWhat are modern blueprints, PDF? Sounds like a fairly simple project.
- puzzledobserver 5y agoMaybe CAD models for 3D printers? Something like Thingiverse, at the very least. I'd imagine you also need repositories of processes and assembly instructions.
- nannal 5y agoThat seems like the kind of things we ought to know inside and out before starting.
- timschmidt 5y agoAll the designs we're drawing for https://wiki.replimat.org/wiki/Main_Page https://wiki.replimat.org/wiki/Main_Page are done using our branch of https://github.com/nophead/NopSCADlib https://github.com/nophead/NopSCADlib which contains some work yet to be upstreamed here: https://github.com/timschmidt/replimat https://github.com/timschmidt/replimat
- abetusk 5y agoAs others have said, the "modular power unit" is most likely a "power cube" (in OSE terminology) [0]. From the "Product Ecology" section, it looks like it does enable the tractor, either through hydraulic or electric power. It looks like it's able to use gasoline and steam though not battery technology (LiPo, etc)? If you were able to cheaply apply the upgrades you're talking about (safety glass, lights) for some nominal fee (maybe sub $500?) would this a viable alternative to other options? How many "quirks" are you willing to put up with before you throw up your hands and go with a more commercial option? [0] https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Power_Cube https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Power_Cube
- bri3d 5y ago"Modular Power Unit" is a 28hp Briggs and Stratton Professional gas unit, per https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Structural_Power_Cube_Build_Instructions https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Structural_Power_Cub... . Overall, this site https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Main_Page https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Main_Page is much better than the linked one for overall information about this initiative, for example https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Power_Cube_Design_Rationale https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Power_Cube_Design_Ra... .
- throwawaylinux 5y agoOh god that's so rough, it looks like they're (very poorly) using an angle grinder free-hand and an oxy torch to cut out their plates. They'd probably find the tooling and jigs they need to do the job properly would be much cheaper and easier if they didn't go way overkill. This little engine does not require a huge 1/2" thick steel plate to mount it on.
- cmrdporcupine 5y agoLack of 3 point hitch and PTO would rule it out completely for me.
- timschmidt 5y agoWe've some work on a three point hitch here: https://wiki.replimat.org/wiki/Three_point_hitches https://wiki.replimat.org/wiki/Three_point_hitches Hydraulic motors with PTO splined shafts are widely available like this: https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Motors/Ag-PTO-Output-Hydraulic-Motors/ https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Motors/Ag...
- throwaway9870 5y agoThey are terribly inefficient and who is going to be servicing all these hydraulics in the 3rd world? Every farming town in the USA has someone who can make custom hydro lines quickly. How many of those shops in Africa?
- timschmidt 5y agoPetrol engines are inefficient. Solar panels are inefficient. Your and my metabolisms are inefficient. Suitability to purpose matters more in my humble opinion. Alongside modularity and reusability. Please contribute anything you know about custom hydraulic lines to https://wiki.replimat.org/wiki/Main_Page https://wiki.replimat.org/wiki/Main_Page - I will approve accounts for any hackernews folk who request one.
- throwaway9870 5y agoGo look at an old farmall or ford tractor and understand how they solved these problems 70+ years ago. Be careful thinking you are smarter than those engineers.
- timschmidt 5y agoI really enjoyed working with grandpa's Ford 8N. Thanks for your input!
- throwaway894345 5y ago> Cab frame has no safety glass or panels, so the operator enjoys every rock and every tree branch :(. a shade canopy is a nice add as well. These were luxuries only our nicest tractors had growing up ~20 years ago. I imagine the market for an Open Source Tractor can similarly make do without.
- hinkley 5y agoRocks and branches are a once-in-a-while problem. Dust is an everyday use problem, and in an era where everything is doused in pesticides and herbicides I don't think it's optional.
- throwaway894345 5y agoNot sure, but we definitely made extensive use of pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers when I was growing up. Of course, to your point, that doesn’t mean that kind of exposure is safe.
- hinkley 5y agoDid your parents teach you to only spray on the upwind passes, or were you huffing *cides half the time?
- throwaway894345 5y agoI wasn't doing much spraying to be honest, but we usually waited for relatively windless days to spray (not for health reasons, but usually because we didn't want to roundup the neighbors' crops/lawns/etc).
- hinkley 5y agoOh that's true, I know that and I'm not sure why I didn't think of it. Herbicide drift is a nightmare scenario of horticulturalists. In certain circles people plan out earth berms and wind breaks of sacrificial plants so their flowers and vegetables don't get hit. Most of us aren't brave enough to build something on the edge of farmland, let alone in the middle of it. But there's always some masochist who will try. 'We' don't have a very high opinion of farmers spraying on a windy day. Similarly flatlander recreational/club bicyclists don't have anything nice to say about farmers spraying anhydrous ammonia on a windy day. Luckily didn't happen very often, and never up close (>400 yards), but that's still enough to really get your attention.
- datameta 5y ago> Cab frame has no safety glass or panels, so the operator enjoys every rock and every tree branch :(. a shade canopy is a nice add as well. > no lights. this is a nonstarter for every farmer that wakes up at 4 am. Not to dismiss those concerns but I would say they could be addressed in later versions of this machine. For lighting, after-market solutions or even duct taping a powerful flashlight or two would do the trick. The market is that of farmers with little to no mechanization. The aim is to be made out of readily available materials and to be as simple to repair as possible.
- dbrgn 5y ago> If we mean to say this tractor is all-electric, keep in mind most small farms arent equipped to charge anything more advanced than a cordless drill or flashlight. Are you sure? In Switzerland, most farms I know have at least one dusty three-phase power outlet somewhere in a shed. Sometimes just 16A, but that should be sufficient for many use cases.
- voakbasda 5y agoIn the US, three phase power seems to be completely unavailable in rural areas, except in small pockets of industry.
- einpoklum 5y agoSo how do the power companies run electricity to those areas? They don't use DC, do they? Or do you mean individual houses are typically wired with just one of the phases?
- HeyLaughingBoy 5y agoCorrect. It can be prohibitively expensive to have 3-phase power run to your house. Most consumers who need it, e.g., hobbyists, will use a phase converter. The only person I know who actually had 3-phase power run to his house was using it for a ceramic kiln.
- quickthrowman 5y agoUS residential and rural areas typically have 120/240v split phase (single phase) 3-wire service, (2) 120v hots and a shared neutral. Commercial customers can usually get three-phase power.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Symbiote 5y agoDoesn't a farm count as a small pocket of industry? (Writing from Denmark, where my small apartment has three phase power. It's standard, I don't know why.)
- _jal 5y ago> its certainly lacking. I'm so old I remember Microsoft's white papers on how shitty Linux was, how it couldn't do this and that, etc. But the cool thing was, like this tractor, you could fix it yourself.
- themaninthedark 5y agoThe cab frame it's self has me a little worried as well. It looks like it is all bolted steel tubes and I am not sure how well those would handle a roll over event.
- tomcam 5y agoNot trying to be funny here, because I am not mechanically inclined, but isn’t that what a roll cage is?
- themaninthedark 5y agoNo worries, I will try to give a better explanation. There are two things I am concerned, the material and the design. My main concern with the material would be how much shear the 1/4 thick mild steel tubes could handle the machine's weight. My concern with the design is that it would not be sturdy enough to withstand the weight of the machine even if the steel technically could. The tubes at the top are fastened with one through bolt. Two if you count the bolt holding the lower pipe. Contrast that with the arms of the machine. Double pipes and a(2, front and back) thick gusset plate at the pivot. You see the same construction at the front of the arm, 2 gusset plates on either side of the pipes with 6 bolts on the arm side and 4 on the loading side. Also washer to spread the load on the gusset plates. The arm/bucket is what does the work, so I expect it to be engineered to work. The machine will not be picking up loads heavier than it, otherwise it would tip forward. So any load put on the roll cage will be greater than the load put on the bucket but I do not see the attention to detail on the roll cage that I see in the bucket/arm connections. I could be wrong, I am not a design/structural engineer. I work as a production engineer but in a factory that builds highway construction equipment. The designs that I am used to seeing are single steel tube bent in an arch for greater strength. Also you are not allowed to weld or cut holes in the tube as that would compromise the strength.
- tomcam 5y agoShear force seems likely a problem now that you mention it. Most cool, thanks.
- d00wgnir 5y agoIf you're capable of building one of these, I imagine rigging up a windshield and some lighting shouldn't be too hard.